Who came up with 76-78 temps?

[GARRIGA]

Thread 'Lps dominated reef tempertaure' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lps-dominated-reef-tempertaure.1041020/

There may be more threads and maybe I read it was an off topic on another thread about lower temperature.

That chart showing little drop in temps vs surface as one drop was interesting. I expected deeper waters being colder especially since here in south Florida summer heat gets fish 50 feet deeper and assumed it was due to higher surface temps. Talking about out in the gulf stream where it would be the warmest most of the year. Know friends that dive and forced to wear a swimsuit come winter although most swimming in 30-60 foot depths but it apparently gets colder there here.

 

[Dburr1014]

That chart showing little drop in temps vs surface as one drop was interesting. I expected deeper waters being colder especially since here in south Florida summer heat gets fish 50 feet deeper and assumed it was due to higher surface temps. Talking about out in the gulf stream where it would be the warmest most of the year. Know friends that dive and forced to wear a swimsuit come winter although most swimming in 30-60 foot depths but it apparently gets colder there here.

Funny about the gulf streams, I always heard they catch angelfish out off the Rhode Island up here in the North like in the fall, early Winters.

 

[GARRIGA]

Funny about the gulf streams, I always heard they catch angelfish out off the Rhode Island up here in the North like in the fall, early Winters.

Everything flows north and some of it can't cope come winter and dies. Heard that about sunfish. Actually came across one shark fishing off Long Island. We thought it was a Great White. I almost turned the boat yellow.

 

[VintageReefer]

My heater controller says 77
My infrared laser temperature gun says items in water near surface are 75

On my pico
A digital probe says 77.6
The digital heater reads 76.5
My infrared gun says 75.5

Temp drives me nuts because I never know what’s accurate I just think stability in an accepted range is most important

 

[GARRIGA]

My heater controller says 77
My infrared laser temperature gun says items in water near surface are 75

On my pico
A digital probe says 77.6
The digital heater reads 76.5
My infrared gun says 75.5

Temp drives me nuts because I never know what’s accurate I just think stability in an accepted range is most important

I've often wondered just how stable reefs are considering nature is anything but stable. Constant change in flow with out going vs incoming tide. Offshore waters lacking nutrients and likely cooler vs shallow warm lagoons emptying their contents on outgoing on that same reef.

Don't get me wrong. I too believe in stability but am I do it because I've convinced myself from constantly hearing it or because that's actually what's going on. Know this much. Waters off my coast change temps day and night. Seasonally and often based on how far offshore the gulf stream resides.

No clue what reefs around the world experience and those closest to the equator likely the most stable but off Florida stable is not a thing and we used to have amazing reefs that unfortunately now turning white. climate change what's causing that and not because of instability but just because the extremes now are too high yet a sudden cold front following a heat wave has actually reversed recent bleaching.

Why I'm leaning to go the colder side as power outages from hurricanes are a thing and prolonging when that will raise temps beyond acceptable and for how long might just save a few things. Might not but guessing short of a generator best I currently have. Although I guess I could also just turn off the heat days before. Not like they just sneak up on you but then is that better than just keeping them colder permanently? Only one way to know.

 

[DCR]

Were that the case tanks wouldn't need heaters. Seems many need to raise temps with the advent of LED and those running external pumps contribute less heat as well. Could just be that future builds might lean colder if ahead of build it was taken into consideration. Obviously where one is located matters as I'm air conditioned year round and my room temps remain in the 69-72 range and only because we adjust it. Those in colder climates might have days where windows are open and temps will likely fluctuate.

My quest is how to best setup my main as well as QT and observation. Tossing the heater would be best for various reasons and going to try first with smaller tanks yet curious if others have and where exactly did this dogma evolve from. Doesn't appear to be isolated to corals. Recall planted tanks of the 70s were in the 75-78 range best I can recall.

Heaters are needed for stable temperatures during the winter. Mine almost never come on during the summer. I don't think too many people living in typical home sizes in the southern USA can afford to run their AC at 69-72 F. I don't think my AC system could even do that living in Houston and if it could I am sure the electric bill would have been well over $1000/month.

 

[GARRIGA]

Heaters are needed for stable temperatures during the winter. Mine almost never come on during the summer. I don't think too many people living in typical home sizes in the southern USA can afford to run their AC at 69-72 F. I don't think my AC system could even do that living in Houston and if it could I am sure the electric bill would have been well over $1000/month.

I get that but outside of practicality for each are we otherwise keeping corals and fish too warm.

 

[Justdrew]

Heaters are needed for stable temperatures during the winter. Mine almost never come on during the summer. I don't think too many people living in typical home sizes in the southern USA can afford to run their AC at 69-72 F. I don't think my AC system could even do that living in Houston and if it could I am sure the electric bill would have been well over $1000/month.

I’m in the Vegas desert and I run the A/C at 78 during the day and 74-76 at night. My elec bill already averages $560 a month.

 

[Miami Reef]

This is from Randy’s parameters article:

Temperature

Temperature impacts reef aquarium inhabitants in a variety of ways. First and foremost, the animals' metabolic rates rise as temperature rises. They may consequently use more oxygen, carbon dioxide, nutrients, calcium and alkalinity at higher temperatures. This higher metabolic rate can also increase both their growth rate and waste production at higher temperatures.

Another important impact of temperature is on the chemical aspects of the aquarium. The solubility of dissolved gases such as oxygen and carbon dioxide, for example, changes with temperature. Oxygen, in particular, can be a concern because it is less soluble at higher temperature.

So what does this imply for aquarists?

In most instances, trying to match the natural environment in a reef aquarium is a worthy goal. Temperature may, however, be a parameter that requires accounting for the practical considerations of a small closed system. Looking to the ocean as a guide for setting temperatures in reef aquaria may present complications, because corals grow in such a wide range of temperatures. Nevertheless, Ron Shimek has shown in a previous article that the greatest variety of corals are found in water whose average temperature is about 83-86° F.

Reef aquaria do, however, have limitations that may make their optimal temperature somewhat lower. During normal functioning of a reef aquarium, the oxygen level and the metabolic rate of the aquarium inhabitants are not often important issues. During a crisis such as a power failure, however, the dissolved oxygen can be rapidly used up. Lower temperatures not only allow a higher oxygen level before an emergency, but will also slow the consumption of that oxygen by slowing the metabolism of the aquarium's inhabitants. The production of ammonia as organisms begin to die may also be slower at lower temperatures. For reasons such as this, one may choose to strike a practical balance between temperatures that are too high (even if corals normally thrive in the ocean at those temperatures), and those that are too low. Although average reef temperatures in maximal diversity areas (i.e. coral triangle centered Indonesia,) these areas are also often subject to significant mixing. In fact, the cooler reefs, ( i..e. open Pacific reefs) are often more stable at lower temperatures due to oceanic exchange but are less tolerant to bleaching and other temperature related perturbations.

All things considered, those natural guidelines leave a fairly wide range of acceptable temperatures. I keep my aquarium at about 80-81° F year-round. I am actually more inclined to keep the aquarium cooler in the summer, when a power failure would most likely warm the aquarium, and higher in winter, when a power failure would most likely cool it.

All things considered, I recommend temperatures in the range of 76-83° F unless there is a very clear reason to keep it outside that range.

https://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php#:~:text=In%20my%20opinion%2C%20the%20pH,end%20of%20this%20pH%20range.

 

[GARRIGA]

I’m in the Vegas desert and I run the A/C at 78 during the day and 74-76 at night. My elec bill already averages $560 a month.

it’s hot and humid by me and bill was $175 ten years ago. Now closer to $300 although rates are dropping. No way I’d survive 78

 

[Dan_P]

According to this article our world reefs operate at a wider range then preached dogma. Perhaps lower temps should be a thing.

Spoke with an individual who’s been in the industry several decades and keeps his reef tanks closer to 70 than 78. Mentioned that in the hottest reefs the temp is considerably cooler at depths most fish and coral found. Outside of shallows. The temp doesn’t get near 76. More oxygen. Plus he mentioned less chance of finding pathogens such as Ich. He’s dove reefs around the world and speaking first hand.

Removing the heater from the equation might work in most homes where room temp 69 to 72 such as mine.

In what types of water do corals live?

Because of strict environmental restrictions, coral reefs generally are confined to tropical and semi-tropical waters

oceanservice.noaa.gov

Some guy

 

[Miami Reef]

In my experience, high temperatures can cause STN. I would much rather cooler temps than too hot. I wouldn’t like my tank to be above 80F.

 

[GARRIGA]

This is from Randy’s parameters article:

https://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php#:~:text=In%20my%20opinion%2C%20the%20pH,end%20of%20this%20pH%20range.

Exert from his article

“
Temperature

Temperature impacts reef aquarium inhabitants in a variety of ways. First and foremost, the animals' metabolic rates rise as temperature rises. They may consequently use more oxygen, carbon dioxide, nutrients, calcium and alkalinity at higher temperatures. This higher metabolic rate can also increase both their growth rate and waste production at higher temperatures.

Another important impact of temperature is on the chemical aspects of the aquarium. The solubility of dissolved gases such as oxygen and carbon dioxide, for example, changes with temperature. Oxygen, in particular, can be a concern because it is less soluble at higher temperature.

So what does this imply for aquarists?

In most instances, trying to match the natural environment in a reef aquarium is a worthy goal. Temperature may, however, be a parameter that requires accounting for the practical considerations of a small closed system. Looking to the ocean as a guide for setting temperatures in reef aquaria may present complications, because corals grow in such a wide range of temperatures. Nevertheless, Ron Shimek has shown in a previous article that the greatest variety of corals are found in water whose average temperature is about 83-86° F.

Reef aquaria do, however, have limitations that may make their optimal temperature somewhat lower. During normal functioning of a reef aquarium, the oxygen level and the metabolic rate of the aquarium inhabitants are not often important issues. During a crisis such as a power failure, however, the dissolved oxygen can be rapidly used up. Lower temperatures not only allow a higher oxygen level before an emergency, but will also slow the consumption of that oxygen by slowing the metabolism of the aquarium's inhabitants. The production of ammonia as organisms begin to die may also be slower at lower temperatures. For reasons such as this, one may choose to strike a practical balance between temperatures that are too high (even if corals normally thrive in the ocean at those temperatures), and those that are too low. Although average reef temperatures in maximal diversity areas (i.e. coral triangle centered Indonesia,) these areas are also often subject to significant mixing. In fact, the cooler reefs, ( i..e. open Pacific reefs) are often more stable at lower temperatures due to oceanic exchange but are less tolerant to bleaching and other temperature related perturbations.

All things considered, those natural guidelines leave a fairly wide range of acceptable temperatures. I keep my aquarium at about 80-81° F year-round. I am actually more inclined to keep the aquarium cooler in the summer, when a power failure would most likely warm the aquarium, and higher in winter, when a power failure would most likely cool it.

All things considered, I recommend temperatures in the range of 76-83° F unless there is a very clear reason to keep it outside that range.”

Notice that he mentions many of the attributes I do to cooler temps. Such as higher oxygen levels and slower metabolism with latter discussion I’ve had with others on this thread.

What I can’t conclude is where he based this range on since the article he referenced speaks of 83-86. I’m assuming these are surface temperatures.

Not having visited these reefs I’m curious how warm it actually is at depth where what we keep originated. I’m told it gets colder deeper you go.

Perhaps best keep them warm during periods where power outages don’t occur to get maximum natural growth then acclimate down in the summer just in case. Don’t know. Yet still no clue where this 76-78 came from. Notice surface temperatures in his referenced article don’t go lower than 83 and I’m assuming that’s during the winter. Very narrow 3 degree range.

 

[GARRIGA]

Some guy

Or gal

 

[GARRIGA]

In my experience, high temperatures can cause STN. I would much rather cooler temps than too hot. I wouldn’t like my tank to be above 80F.

Being you’re in my part of the woods. Ever dive our reefs and noticed cooler temps. Granted we aren’t at the equator but we do have reefs.

 

[BeanAnimal]

• Different coral varieties will vary, but in general with most coral being able to live between 73-83 Fahrenheit, either end of the range is going to be stressful on corals that thrive at the other end of the range
• Metabolic rates for zoox and most corals are most efficient at around 78F
• Calcification is more appears to be more efficient at temperatures around 78F
• While some pathogens may be less active at lower temperatures, the immune response of corals appears to be better at the warmer temperatures.
• Corals are more reproductively active at 78F or slightly above - reinforcing the above points about their "preferred" temperature.
• Many SPS are adapted to warmer water.

Couple those facts with the fact that 78F or close gives you plenty of room on either side for error (be it measurement, equipment issues, etc.)

It has been a decade or maybe two - but I did a good bit of research on this for a club presentation back then. I would like to say I would dig out the talk and source material, but I am far too lazy. Most of it can be found online though through various portals such as research gate.

Remember the coral that we are talking about are not that old in terms of ocean age. Their ancestors may have been different (think cold and deep or murky water).

 

[Miami Reef]

Being you’re in my part of the woods. Ever dive our reefs and noticed cooler temps. Granted we aren’t at the equator but we do have reefs.

I didn’t even notice we are so close! Wow. That’s awesome.

I don’t really go diving, but the beach is always too cold for me lol. I never checked the temperature but I think it’s gotta be under 80F.

Take what I say with the tiniest grain of salt. Haha

 

[GARRIGA]

• Different coral varieties will vary, but in general with most coral being able to live between 73-83 Fahrenheit, either end of the range is going to be stressful on corals that thrive at the other end of the range
• Metabolic rates for zoox and most corals are most efficient at around 78F
• Calcification is more appears to be more efficient at temperatures around 78F
• While some pathogens may be less active at lower temperatures, the immune response of corals appears to be better at the warmer temperatures.
• Corals are more reproductively active at 78F or slightly above - reinforcing the above points about their "preferred" temperature.
• Many SPS are adapted to warmer water.

Couple those facts with the fact that 78F or close gives you plenty of room on either side for error (be it measurement, equipment issues, etc.)

It has been a decade or maybe two - but I did a good bit of research on this for a club presentation back then. I would like to say I would dig out the talk and source material, but I am far too lazy. Most of it can be found online though through various portals such as research gate.

Remember the coral that we are talking about are not that old in terms of ocean age. Their ancestors may have been different (think cold and deep or murky water).

That’s interesting how mostly it points to 78. I’m assuming these experiments were conducted at various temperature vs just everything at 78. I’ll see if I can get access to research gate. Some sources have an abstract requiring some form of membership or status of employment or educational need as they recall.

 

[revenant]

I’m following this thread, this is an interesting discussion

indeed... I keep my house around 68F in the winter and around 74F in the summer. I'm located in Southern CA and have central AC so keeping the house cool in the summers helps the tank a lot. I like to keep my inkbird set to 79F target in the winter and then I drop it to 78F for the summer.. (which I just did).. (EDIT: w/ my temp probe in the tank and heater in sump the tank hovers around 77 normally..) Honestly this question makes a lot of sense as when I snorkel in say Belize the surface water is up to 84F but feels like it drops 10F at least, probably more when I dive down only 10 feet and all the corals and fish seem totally happy there.

I could probably drop my target to 77F ~ 76F for summer even... I guess my thought is if I were to loose power for an extended period I would want the tank warm enough to survive for 8 to 12 hours without heat in the winter.. and the same in the summer without AC.. so keeping it in the middle of acceptable ranges seems to make most sense for that reason alone.

In related news, I'm shopping heaters for my new 300G which is in the final stages of work. I decided on an innovative marine 700w (dual 350w titanium elements) and I think that alone should do it... I'll see.. I'll have a backup solution too in the event of a failure.. but I don't think I need to go too crazy based on my house temp averages.

Anyways.. good topic. I bet I could happily run things are 74F without any side effects..

 

[GARRIGA]

... when I snorkel in say Belize the surface water is up to 84F but feels like it drops 10F at least, probably more when I dive down only 10 feet and all the corals and fish seem totally happy there.

That's what I'm told on it dropping deeper one goes.