Why can't I keep a lion?

[Jedi1199]

I wonder if they used copper in the place before?

I suggest we all wait until @lion king Has a chance to chime in here.

Personally, I do not have enough experience with Lions to feel comfortable offering any advice.

 

[lion king]

1st off lionfish have a very high mortality rate, period, and they are not easily kept long term. A year is not long term and the biggest culprits to their early demise is internal parasites, copper exposure, and cyanide. While some have longer success with volitans(inc, russels, miles), they still usually succumb to an early demise due to nutritional deficiencies. Some can keep volitans a while because they are more willing to take a variety of dead foods, but most never keep them for a deserved long life of 10 years or so, most usually don't do much better than about 3 years. Volitans are collected by the 1000s so it appears there are more survivors, while they are hardier than the others, they still have a very high mortality rate.

1st they must come from a copper free source, and it will likely be unknown if cyanide was used during capture. They also do poorly with antibiotics, formalin, any tank cleaners, and really just about anything except praziquantel and metronidazole(active ingedients in general cure and paracleanse). They should be acclimated to an observation/qt tank by matching the sg and establishing eating. Unless you are very good at observing signs of internal parasites, I suggest immediately treating with general cure or paracleanse. The dwarf and medium bodied lions rarely take enough or variety enough dead food to live long, Most determined to feed a dead only diet will never keep them more than 1,5 years, and a year is more likely, I suggest having your lfs order the lion and you pick them up in the bag, test sg in the bag and match your tank. Multiple acclimations within a short time usually doesn't end well.

I really don't understand the myth that lions are hardy. You can search and search and will only find a handle of people keeping lions long term, and very very few keeping the dwarf and medium bodied lions. The fuzzy is one that will take dead food more easily and be willing to accept a variety. Even still without a committed diet including fatty fish, shell on shrimp, mussels, and other seafood preferably fresh frozen in small batches; they still only live about 1.5 years at best. I feed mine primarily a live diet and keep them going towards 10 years.

 

[zaidalin79]

1st off lionfish have a very high mortality rate, period, and they are not easily kept long term. A year is not long term and the biggest culprits to their early demise is internal parasites, copper exposure, and cyanide. While some have longer success with volitans(inc, russels, miles), they still usually succumb to an early demise due to nutritional deficiencies. Some can keep volitans a while because they are more willing to take a variety of dead foods, but most never keep them for a deserved long life of 10 years or so, most usually don't do much better than about 3 years. Volitans are collected by the 1000s so it appears there are more survivors, while they are hardier than the others, they still have a very high mortality rate.

1st they must come from a copper free source, and it will likely be unknown if cyanide was used during capture. They also do poorly with antibiotics, formalin, any tank cleaners, and really just about anything except praziquantel and metronidazole(active ingedients in general cure and paracleanse). They should be acclimated to an observation/qt tank by matching the sg and establishing eating. Unless you are very good at observing signs of internal parasites, I suggest immediately treating with general cure or paracleanse. The dwarf and medium bodied lions rarely take enough or variety enough dead food to live long, Most determined to feed a dead only diet will never keep them more than 1,5 years, and a year is more likely, I suggest having your lfs order the lion and you pick them up in the bag, test sg in the bag and match your tank. Multiple acclimations within a short time usually doesn't end well.

I really don't understand the myth that lions are hardy. You can search and search and will only find a handle of people keeping lions long term, and very very few keeping the dwarf and medium bodied lions. The fuzzy is one that will take dead food more easily and be willing to accept a variety. Even still without a committed diet including fatty fish, shell on shrimp, mussels, and other seafood preferably fresh frozen in small batches; they still only live about 1.5 years at best. I feed mine primarily a live diet and keep them going towards 10 years.

I have made up a diet of frozen seafood and supplements but I haven’t gotten that far with them to get them eating it yet. The others in the tank are eating raw scallops, shrimp, and fish I’m adoro to frozen foods. I am prepared to feed them seafood once I can get them over to dead foods. So far only the ghost shrimp have been successful but I have the volitan eating from the tongs so I plan to start tricking him into eating some seafood pieces too. How do you prepare your food? I want to give them the best chance. This last time from the lfs I picked them up still in the bag. One died that night the other the next day. So I’m guessing I don’t want them from his source. The Mombasa I got online and they had them at least a few weeks over the holidays before I could ship them but they also died in 2 and 3 days respectively. They had eaten the live ghost shrimp the first day after adding them. The next morning one was dead abs the following day I saw the other one floating sideways barely breathing, then died about ten minutes later. Do you have a good source I could try where they don’t use cyanide? I just don’t know what I can do to try to keep them. At this point I’m going to give up because I’m heartbroken when I fail them. I just really don’t know what else I’m doing wrong. I see people with multiple lions of different types and I don’t even get to the point of training them onto frozen foods.

 

[zaidalin79]

1st off lionfish have a very high mortality rate, period, and they are not easily kept long term. A year is not long term and the biggest culprits to their early demise is internal parasites, copper exposure, and cyanide. While some have longer success with volitans(inc, russels, miles), they still usually succumb to an early demise due to nutritional deficiencies. Some can keep volitans a while because they are more willing to take a variety of dead foods, but most never keep them for a deserved long life of 10 years or so, most usually don't do much better than about 3 years. Volitans are collected by the 1000s so it appears there are more survivors, while they are hardier than the others, they still have a very high mortality rate.

1st they must come from a copper free source, and it will likely be unknown if cyanide was used during capture. They also do poorly with antibiotics, formalin, any tank cleaners, and really just about anything except praziquantel and metronidazole(active ingedients in general cure and paracleanse). They should be acclimated to an observation/qt tank by matching the sg and establishing eating. Unless you are very good at observing signs of internal parasites, I suggest immediately treating with general cure or paracleanse. The dwarf and medium bodied lions rarely take enough or variety enough dead food to live long, Most determined to feed a dead only diet will never keep them more than 1,5 years, and a year is more likely, I suggest having your lfs order the lion and you pick them up in the bag, test sg in the bag and match your tank. Multiple acclimations within a short time usually doesn't end well.

I really don't understand the myth that lions are hardy. You can search and search and will only find a handle of people keeping lions long term, and very very few keeping the dwarf and medium bodied lions. The fuzzy is one that will take dead food more easily and be willing to accept a variety. Even still without a committed diet including fatty fish, shell on shrimp, mussels, and other seafood preferably fresh frozen in small batches; they still only live about 1.5 years at best. I feed mine primarily a live diet and keep them going towards 10 years.

Would the hypo that I had the tank at initially have helped with the internal parasites, or is that only flukes and ich? I haven’t used any medication on them but they haven’t been here that long to try to diagnose something.

 

[lion king]

Mombasa's are tough, I haven't had any make it, and I'm talking a few over several years. So something about the source, maybe, cyanide is back in use with no shame, no matter what you do they are going to die, quickly. The mombasa's also seemed to come in in rather rough shape, can't answer why, again the source.

The hypo is actually a trick suppliers use to keep parasites and disease at bay, it doesn't cure anything, as soon as salinity is raised the disease explodes and you better be ready. Internal parasites is so prevalent, as I mentioned, unless you are very good at observation; I suggest most just automatically treat. If they are eating you can fatten them up for a couple of days, but if not eating; treat immediately.

Volitans take pretty easily to dead food, so just start offering chunks on a feeding stick. All the others will start out on live ghosties, also guppies and mollies if proper sizes are available. There is never a guarantee the medium and dwarf species will ever eat dead food, and usually are very select. Most times eating a limited diet high in thiaminese(which binds vit B1), and never eating enough and just waste away over time. While I have had long term success with the fuzzy and zebra eating dead food, it is a chore to sustain and I no longer concern myself with feeding dead food. I've never known anyone keeping a medium bodied or a fu manchu long term on a dead only diet, while I have never known anyone keeping a fuzzy or zebra much more than 1.5 years on a dead only diet.

 

[Jedi1199]

Haha.. do you see now why I said let's wait for Lion King? I didn't know half of this info...

 

[sfin52]

Haha.. do you see now why I said let's wait for Lion King? I didn't know half of this info...

I was going to tag but you did. K love reading Lion Kings info. I come away going wow. @lion king thanks for the info

 

[zaidalin79]

Mombasa's are tough, I haven't had any make it, and I'm talking a few over several years. So something about the source, maybe, cyanide is back in use with no shame, no matter what you do they are going to die, quickly. The mombasa's also seemed to come in in rather rough shape, can't answer why, again the source.

The hypo is actually a trick suppliers use to keep parasites and disease at bay, it doesn't cure anything, as soon as salinity is raised the disease explodes and you better be ready. Internal parasites is so prevalent, as I mentioned, unless you are very good at observation; I suggest most just automatically treat. If they are eating you can fatten them up for a couple of days, but if not eating; treat immediately.

Volitans take pretty easily to dead food, so just start offering chunks on a feeding stick. All the others will start out on live ghosties, also guppies and mollies if proper sizes are available. There is never a guarantee the medium and dwarf species will ever eat dead food, and usually are very select. Most times eating a limited diet high in thiaminese(which binds vit B1), and never eating enough and just waste away over time. While I have had long term success with the fuzzy and zebra eating dead food, it is a chore to sustain and I no longer concern myself with feeding dead food. I've never known anyone keeping a medium bodied or a fu manchu long term on a dead only diet, while I have never known anyone keeping a fuzzy or zebra much more than 1.5 years on a dead only diet.

Thank you for your response - I think it has solidified my feeling of just giving up on keeping lions - I will just be happy with my volitan and my porky puffer. I have general cure but will have to see if that is ok for the puffer before I treat the dt. I guess I could move my lion to a treatment tank but that may be too stressful. At least it (sadly) makes me feel better that I may not have been doing anything wrong. I used the hypo to get ich under control that I saw starting. Left it low for over a month and now bringing it back to normal slowly. I prefer not to use alot of meds if it can be helped. Anyway again thank you for your info, have you any experience with scorpionfish? Are they the same?

 

[lion king]

If the volitan has been eating consistently, don't worry about it. If he goes off eating for more than one feeding, then there would be a concern. Lions are very resilient against ich, their super slime coating will shed off and if healthy and strong enough, they just won't be affected. Puffers are fine with gc and are also notorious for coming in with internal parasites. If eating, no signs of stringy poo, cloudy eyes and faded color, lethargy; they should be fine.

 

[zaidalin79]

I have had that puffer in there much longer than the lion - both are eating voraciously and no signs like you mention. I will keep the GC in mind if anything changes though. Thank you

 

[Mario Griffin]

@lion king I also have struggled to keep lionfish long term on a dead diet. You say that you feed primarily a live diet, what exactly do you feed the lion fish? I'm willing to try anything.. lol

 

[lion king]

@lion king I also have struggled to keep lionfish long term on a dead diet. You say that you feed primarily a live diet, what exactly do you feed the lion fish? I'm willing to try anything.. lol

They start out on ghost shrimp and maintain ghosties as a staple throughout their life. When small they get guppies and when larger they get appropriate sized mollies added in with ghosties as their main. I've written many threads in regards to nutrition for lions, you can tap my name and find all threads for more info. I also give tips on what to feed, and what not to feed when offering dead food.

 

[Mario Griffin]

They start out on ghost shrimp and maintain ghosties as a staple throughout their life. When small they get guppies and when larger they get appropriate sized mollies added in with ghosties as their main. I've written many threads in regards to nutrition for lions, you can tap my name and find all threads for more info. I also give tips on what to feed, and what not to feed when offering dead food.

@lion king I appreciate the info!

 

[Hendrix]

@lion king Would be the one to ask.

My initial instinct says, copper in the LFS system, but from what I have read, death in a few days seems really fast for that issue.

I defer to the expert on this one.

Good luck

I agree:
- I would suspect copper somewhere along the line, LFS, Distributor...

Lions are hardy fish! Always have them feed it and don't buy it if not eating. Stressed fish struggle to get better if not eating.