WHY feed live to the Scorpaenidae

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,653
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Anyone that have read my threads or post, know that I am a staunce advocate for feeding live food to many species of lions, scorps, and anglers. In this installment let's examine how I came to this adamant position. Be aware that this hobby is never absolute and there are always exceptions. This information is just a compilation of decades and 100s of cases to get a most likely outcome. Still in the end, this is just my opinion, but I hope everyone that reads this knows that I sincere in just wishing them success. Likely most people on this board can't imagine that some hobbyist believe they are doing a great service, just by keeping a dwarf lion alive for a year. Depending on the species, we are talking about fish that live form 10-15 years in the wild. You may also be surprised that lfs tell their customers to expect a year for the dwarf and medium lions. It's amazing that I have actually had hobbyist seeming brag to me how they kept a fuzzy for a year. If you are one that treat these beautiful creatures as disposable human entertainment, then read no further.

Your 1st challenge: I suggest never getting one of these predators if you will not or can not provide a live diet. There is never a guarantee they will ever accept dead food, at all. If you lfs tell you they are eating dead food, it is not a dead food diet that will keep them alive long. Most times even if they eating dead food, there a reboot when they get moved and likely you will have to start all over. Many people give up and let them die, then blame the fish for not eating. Some people also believe they can catch enough food from the water column, as they catch a morsal here or there when they broadcast feed their tanks.

Your 2nd challenge: Getting them to eat the proper foods that will supply them with the nutrients for a long life. I strongly suggest not using lfs krill as a starting point, or it may be the only dead food they ever accept. The most common diets consist of lfs krill, silversides, and frozen shrimp. This diet will not suffice for long, it is lacking in vital nutrients and high in thiaminase. Most times the dwarf and medium bodied lions, other various scorps, and anglers will never accept the foods needed for a long life. If you get them eating dead foods and maintain a dead only diet, on an improper diet they can last several months to about a year and a half.

Sometimes you can get them taking dead foods and it's going really well, for a while. Then one day they won't take the food, no biggie, they can miss a meal or two without doom. But for some, that's it, they just stop eating dead food, You will either offer them live food again or you will blame the fish for not eating. At this point, sometimes they are now in a community tank that makes it too hard or even impossible to get them live food, so most never even offer them live again; and then they starve, and you blame the fish. Or at this point some decide to wait them out, starvation method you know, well there is a tipping point. It usually arrives at around 3 weeks, after that even if you decide to offer them live food, they will never eat again.

There are always exceptions, the volitan lion is the best candidate for a person wanting a lion, but has no interest in offering live food. The volitan does need at least a tank of 180g. While is is possible, as I have kept a fuzzy several years on a dead only diet, in all likelihood it will not happen. I do have suggestions for a dead diet but most will never follow my suggestions, above all it needs to be varied with fatty fish, shells and guts and bones, and fresh. I haven't found the method most use for supplementation to be of much use for one reason or another. But stuffing chunks with a pellet high in vitamin c and vit B1 is a valuable addition for dense nutrition, so it adding an algae pellet. If you are to use liquid supplements, use a kitchen syringe, as most will rinse of in the water column.

I have kept many predators for several years to over a decade by including live ghost shrimp, guppies, and mollies in their diet. It is a good idea to keep a feeder tank so you can feed them a healthy diet and gut load with pellets before offering. This tank can be as simple as any small container form a tupperware to a 10g tank with a sponge filter. Mollies and guppies are both brackish fish that do well with some salt, I keep my mollies at 1.013-15 and my guppies at 1.005-7. Ghost shrimp are euryhaline and can live in fresh, brackish, and salt water. All of these live foods are complete nutrition.
 

Gp!

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
631
Reaction score
434
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have kept many predators for several years to over a decade by including live ghost shrimp, guppies, and mollies in their diet... All of these live foods are complete nutrition.

Is it important to offer guppies and mollies? Or could one just use mollies with success?
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,653
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I usually feed guppies until they are large enough to mollies, and my little wasp. If you are raising your own mollies then there's no problem. Whole live fish is all that matters, it.s a complete food with live gut flora and bone. My rhino exclusively eats mollies unless a jumbo ghostie literally walks into his mouth, he won/t chase them. My zebra won.t eat fish, everyone else gets a combo leaning more towards ghosties. Now that everyone is grown, the guppoes are just for my wasp. Mollies are the best all around.
 

Karen00

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
3,565
Reaction score
6,491
Location
Toronto
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thank you for taking the time to post this! Having experts such as yourself post their knowledge of how to properly care for our inhabitants helps make everyone successful and keeps our tanks happy and healthy! :)
 

ISpeakForTheSeas

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
6,282
Reaction score
7,582
Location
United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
As has been said, thank you for taking the time to write out all of this information - while many may not listen, at least a few will benefit from your experience and advice.

Bit of an odd question to follow up with here, but would balloon mollies be just as good as regular mollies for use as feeders? To ask it another way, is there any real nutritional difference between normal mollies and balloon mollies?
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,653
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
As has been said, thank you for taking the time to write out all of this information - while many may not listen, at least a few will benefit from your experience and advice.

Bit of an odd question to follow up with here, but would balloon mollies be just as good as regular mollies for use as feeders? To ask it another way, is there any real nutritional difference between normal mollies and balloon mollies?

There is no difference. You have to aware of the size to what you are feeding. Balloon mollies being round shape and more robust.
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,653
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Added BONUS; Their personality just blossoms when they are hunting. They become so much more active, always cruising, scouring the tank, perching in different positions to get a vantage point. Anglers will cruise and use their little fishing pole looking for prey, scooting around using their jet packs, I had one warty I used to say did his little recon missions looking for food. Goblins will pop up and reposition their ambush areas, burying in sand, and crawling around with their little spider legs looking for food, The rhino, and leaf fish, cockatoo wasp, and other scorp will hopp around following you from one end of the tank to other begging for you to drop food in they can chase down, Climbing and propelling themselves to higher ground for better vantage point.

These guys already have a reputation for being sedentary, feed them dead on stick and you just enhance that sedentary nature. I've visited other hobbyist and found their preds in the same exact position every time I visit, and never move over the entire time I'm there. They are amazed when they come to my house, when I walk into my office they see my lions launch from their rocks and start cruising, putting on a show. They see my rhino hop from side of the tank to the other, then scale a cliff up to plateau, seemingly giving me the eye. They'll see my angler scoot across the tank and start fishing to get my attention. Comments are always "I've never seen fish like this, act like this". Feed dead on a stick, and get a bump on a log until they get bored to death, and just stop eating.
 

cooltowncorals

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Messages
327
Reaction score
247
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Is there a specific brand of pellet or flake food you prefer for gut loading?
 
OP
OP
lion king

lion king

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
6,797
Reaction score
8,653
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Is there a specific brand of pellet or flake food you prefer for gut loading?

I do prefer pellet over flake, you can see the whole pellets in the guts of the ghosties, I'm sure the guppies and the mollies do the same. I like the Omega One micro pellets and New Life Spectrum algae max, any quality pellet food. Micro or mini for the ghosties, guppies, and small mollies.
 

High pressure shells: Do you look for signs of stress in the invertebrates in your reef tank?

  • I regularly look for signs of invertebrate stress in my reef tank.

    Votes: 36 31.3%
  • I occasionally look for signs of invertebrate stress in my reef tank.

    Votes: 28 24.3%
  • I rarely look for signs of invertebrate stress in my reef tank.

    Votes: 21 18.3%
  • I never look for signs of invertebrate stress in my reef tank.

    Votes: 30 26.1%
  • Other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
Back
Top