Why wont my Calcium reactor work correctly ? HELP PLEASE

[C. Eymann]

If you want to learn a more reliable and efficient method of using a CaRx, I can help you with this. It will NOT involve a pH probe or controller with a co2 dumping method. It does require that you learn a few things, but it is not hard - when you are done, you won't even need a second chamber, your co2 will last longer and your output will be more consistent.

This is basically the normal old method of using a CaRx and it is superior to the method in that video (which I hate) or what some people recommend, but it is not for everybody. I have helped a lot of people with this who went down the pH controller path and got sideways only to be happy now. Let me know. If you do not, then I will not bother you anymore.

Like I mentioned previously, reactors should be tuned so that the CO2 solenoid almost never shuts on/shuts off, pH/controllers should always be used as a fall back or safety, which I think is what you are getting at, and I agree with you a properly tuned reactor shouldn't really even need a ph controller/co2 shut off, it should be there and used as a fall back/for redundancy.

 

[shoggoth43]

If you want to learn a more reliable and efficient method of using a CaRx, I can help you with this. It will NOT involve a pH probe or controller with a co2 dumping method. It does require that you learn a few things, but it is not hard - when you are done, you won't even need a second chamber, your co2 will last longer and your output will be more consistent.

This is basically the normal old method of using a CaRx and it is superior to the method in that video (which I hate) or what some people recommend, but it is not for everybody. I have helped a lot of people with this who went down the pH controller path and got sideways only to be happy now. Let me know. If you do not, then I will not bother you anymore.

I'd be interested if the OP isn't. Please PM me the info?

-
S

 

[vetteguy53081]

Like I mentioned previously, reactors should be tuned so that the CO2 solenoid almost never shuts on/shuts off, pH/controllers should always be used as a fall back or safety, which I think is what you are getting at, and I agree with you a properly tuned reactor shouldn't really even need a ph controller/co2 shut off, it should be there and used as a fall back/for redundancy.

Yes absolutely and appreciated. I too was warned about controllers for ph so i bought a monitor instead. Thank You In advance !!

 

[vetteguy53081]

If you want to learn a more reliable and efficient method of using a CaRx, I can help you with this. It will NOT involve a pH probe or controller with a co2 dumping method. It does require that you learn a few things, but it is not hard - when you are done, you won't even need a second chamber, your co2 will last longer and your output will be more consistent.

This is basically the normal old method of using a CaRx and it is superior to the method in that video (which I hate) or what some people recommend, but it is not for everybody. I have helped a lot of people with this who went down the pH controller path and got sideways only to be happy now. Let me know. If you do not, then I will not bother you anymore.

I’d be interested !!

 

[Dlealrious]

I found it easiest to run a steady stream and just adjust ph in chamber to remain steady and only set controller as a fail safe. Ph in my chamber sits at 6.7 and if it gets down to 6.5 c02 will turn off. I know if it ever does turn off needle vale on effluent line is clogging. No counting bubbles etc just make little tweaks with regulator valve to keep chamber constant. When demand increases or decreases just raise or lower ph slightly. Key is to keep chamber consistent no switching or solenoid.

 

[C. Eymann]

Again I think what JDA is saying is that a PROPERLY tuned reactor should not need a pH controller at all and he is right! While you can have a pH controller essentially run your reactor, it's not the most efficient way and can lead to inconsistencies. There is a reason some reactors, esp European made reactors dont come with pH probe ports (Korallin) its because if you have tuned the reactor properly you should not need it.

 

[jda]

I stopped using a pH controller a decade ago. The pH probe is the least reliable piece of equipment in this deal, so I could not wait to get rid of it... never did anything but cause issues and certainly did not help anything, but I do pay attention. Always good to rid rid of the weak link. Just look for drips dripping and bubbles bubbling and I pick my co2 cylinder up every now and again to make sure that it is not near the end of fill.

Get away from your dependency on the pH probe and you will be better off. Just set the bubble counter and flow rate to some ratio around 6 bubbles and 40 drops per minute - test the effluent the next day. You should be somewhere in the 20-30 range... if not, move ONE of them until you are. Wait overnight to test effluent again. Once you get into that range, count the bubbles and measure the effluent in MLs. This is your "magic ratio." Move both parts of the magic ratio up or down until your tank demand is met.

Once you get done with this, if you want to use the pH prove to monitor and alert/text/email, then OK, but do not use it to turn anything off... if you check your bottle every once in a while and have good equipment, the pH probe will fail more than your reactor will.

I with that video would disappear from YouTube forever.

Far down the road...if your tank gets really stocked and your reactor is near it's peak output, then you can move the effluent dKh up quite a bit. I would not do this unless you NEED to - with a super heavy stocked SPS tank where I melt a whole 25kg bag of ARM or Reborn in less than a year, I do not need to go any higher than about 25. This keeps the pH up, nearly eliminates the possibility of melting media and does not let any excess co2 out of the reactor and into your tank.

To test high dKh effluent, you can dilute with RO or you can just keep on adding the final syringe and add the 2 of them together or you can do "low res" mode on Salifert - I just keep on adding the 1ml syringe on my Salifert kit.

 

[foxt]

I guess I should go watch that video and find out what is wrong with it, because I don't do anything different than what jda recommends.

It comes down to knowing what your alk demand is, and then balancing the bubble count and effluent alk and rate to match that. The pH probe and apex control I have on the reactor is a safeguard - if the pH in the reactor gets too low, the Apex tells me about it and I go look to see what happened. One time my effluent input line got clogged and the masterflex pump wasn't pushing any effluent through the reactor, so the pH was dropping. If the pH gets too high, most likely my CO2 has run out (call me lazy, but I do not check the CO2 tank every day especially when I am out of the country).

Alk demand increasing over time? Turn up effluent flow and bubble count.

I think the OP will be measuring his effluent flow rate, and then we'll be able to give him more pointers about how to balance his alk demand with the reactor so he can stop supplementing with soda ash.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I stopped using a pH controller a decade ago. The pH probe is the least reliable piece of equipment in this deal, so I could not wait to get rid of it... never did anything but cause issues and certainly did not help anything, but I do pay attention. Always good to rid rid of the weak link. Just look for drips dripping and bubbles bubbling and I pick my co2 cylinder up every now and again to make sure that it is not near the end of fill.

Get away from your dependency on the pH probe and you will be better off. Just set the bubble counter and flow rate to some ratio around 6 bubbles and 40 drops per minute - test the effluent the next day. You should be somewhere in the 20-30 range... if not, move ONE of them until you are. Wait overnight to test effluent again. Once you get into that range, count the bubbles and measure the effluent in MLs. This is your "magic ratio." Move both parts of the magic ratio up or down until your tank demand is met.

Once you get done with this, if you want to use the pH prove to monitor and alert/text/email, then OK, but do not use it to turn anything off... if you check your bottle every once in a while and have good equipment, the pH probe will fail more than your reactor will.

I with that video would disappear from YouTube forever.

Far down the road...if your tank gets really stocked and your reactor is near it's peak output, then you can move the effluent dKh up quite a bit. I would not do this unless you NEED to - with a super heavy stocked SPS tank where I melt a whole 25kg bag of ARM or Reborn in less than a year, I do not need to go any higher than about 25. This keeps the pH up, nearly eliminates the possibility of melting media and does not let any excess co2 out of the reactor and into your tank.

To test high dKh effluent, you can dilute with RO or you can just keep on adding the final syringe and add the 2 of them together or you can do "low res" mode on Salifert - I just keep on adding the 1ml syringe on my Salifert kit.

Yes absolutely and your assistance with method would be appreciated. I too was warned about controllers for ph so i bought a monitor instead. Thank You In advance !!

 

[Bpb]

I guess I should go watch that video and find out what is wrong with it, because I don't do anything different than what jda recommends.

It comes down to knowing what your alk demand is, and then balancing the bubble count and effluent alk and rate to match that. The pH probe and apex control I have on the reactor is a safeguard - if the pH in the reactor gets too low, the Apex tells me about it and I go look to see what happened. One time my effluent input line got clogged and the masterflex pump wasn't pushing any effluent through the reactor, so the pH was dropping. If the pH gets too high, most likely my CO2 has run out (call me lazy, but I do not check the CO2 tank every day especially when I am out of the country).

Alk demand increasing over time? Turn up effluent flow and bubble count.

I think the OP will be measuring his effluent flow rate, and then we'll be able to give him more pointers about how to balance his alk demand with the reactor so he can stop supplementing with soda ash.

The jist of the video:

Use a Carbon Doser regulator
Use a regular AC pump or manifold off the return with no valve, just wide open stream of effluent
Use your PH controller and start high at something like 7.0, test your display alk
Every day if the alk is dropping increase the ph statement down 0.1 until the alk holds still

It simple to a fault. It will constantly cycle the solenoid in an effort to keep the ph stable. You don't have to worry about needle valves clogging, or buying an expensive peristaltic pump. But you lose fine tuning ability by controlling two points, and you also will burn through co2 very fast due to higher bubble counts.

I kind of do it the "correct" way without the effluent testing. I DO run a ph probe, but just so I can verify the gas/effluent ratio hasn't changed. I don't use it to cycle the solenoid, ever. It has been at 6.73 for over a year. Has not budged. Solenoid has only cycled when I remember to manually do it occasionally to make sure its still working.

I run a Peristaltic pump. I started at the lowest setting, and around 1 bubble every 5-10 seconds. As I tested the display alkalinity I would just increase the gas as the alkalinity was dropping until it held stable. That was at 6.73, and that is where I have kept it. Over the years to account for increased demand I have just increased the effluent rate and the gas at the same time to maintain 6.73, but at faster effluent rates. I guess I could test my effluent alk and see what it looks like, but what I've been doing uses very little CO2, and runs my masterflex at a fairly low speed. I will sometimes go weeks without remembering to check everything to make sure it's still good. Just runs itself. I will top off media in the reactor about once every 8-12 months, and co2 every 6-8 months

 

[foxt]

The jist of the video:

Use a Carbon Doser regulator
Use a regular AC pump or manifold off the return with no valve, just wide open stream of effluent
Use your PH controller and start high at something like 7.0, test your display alk
Every day if the alk is dropping increase the ph statement down 0.1 until the alk holds still

It simple to a fault. It will constantly cycle the solenoid in an effort to keep the ph stable. You don't have to worry about needle valves clogging, or buying an expensive peristaltic pump. But you lose fine tuning ability by controlling two points, and you also will burn through co2 very fast due to higher bubble counts.

Thanks for summarizing. So the pH controller turns the carbon doser on/off to hold pH in the reactor constant? Even under that method, once you reached the target reactor pH, wouldn't you cut your bubble count down if the controller is cycling the carbon doser too much? Can't be great to repeatedly cycle the carbon doser on and off.

I run a masterflex for effluent pump, and it made running a carx so much easier for me.

 

[gilman]

I guess I should go watch that video and find out what is wrong with it, because I don't do anything different than what jda recommends.

It comes down to knowing what your alk demand is, and then balancing the bubble count and effluent alk and rate to match that. The pH probe and apex control I have on the reactor is a safeguard - if the pH in the reactor gets too low, the Apex tells me about it and I go look to see what happened. One time my effluent input line got clogged and the masterflex pump wasn't pushing any effluent through the reactor, so the pH was dropping. If the pH gets too high, most likely my CO2 has run out (call me lazy, but I do not check the CO2 tank every day especially when I am out of the country).

Alk demand increasing over time? Turn up effluent flow and bubble count.

I think the OP will be measuring his effluent flow rate, and then we'll be able to give him more pointers about how to balance his alk demand with the reactor so he can stop supplementing with soda ash.

I just measured the effluent flow rate at 60ml a minute

 

[gilman]

So I measured the tank Alk and its 7.8dkh for the third day in a row now . So now my alk is stable at 5ml a day of soda ash and where the reactor is tuned at . So now should I dose some additional alk to raise the tank parameter up and see if it stay at that tomorrow ? Or should I lower the amount im dosing over night a ml and see if im at 7.8 tomorrow .

I want my target dkh in tank to be 8 dkh overall .

 

[jda]

That method dumps a whole bunch of co2 into the reactor until the pH gets low enough, then it shuts off. Most/some of the co2 usually heads out the reactor and into the tank. When the pH rises, it will dump a bunch again. It is a method of dumping and nothing where the pH goes up and down and up and down and you cannot get consistent and constant output. If the pH probe wanders or fails, then you can melt media or stop producing and you never know since your controller thinks that you are still in range - this is not a risk that I am willing to take with the unreliable nature of a pH probe. This is also mostly the method that BRS recommends, but they do suggest that you tune a bit - but still let a controller still control stuff with a probe.

Constant, minimal tune will get you the best, most consistent results. You do not ever need a pH probe or monitor for this... just look for bubbles and drips once you get it tuned. I do pick up the tank every so often and feel how heavy it is so that I know when I need to pay more attention.

I have helped many people switch, and they are always happy. You do have to learn how the thing works, but after a while, it is like the trickling-down green digits in The Matrix where you start to be able to read them in an instant.

If you still need to add two-part, then you need to up your effluent and bubbles in the same ratio that you are at now. Keep upping it until you no longer need to add soda ash.

 

[foxt]

Normally you would now slowly increase effluent flow rate, say to 65 ml/ min, and bump up your bubble count. Then measure the alk of you effluent again.

What is the bubble rate now, and the effluent alk?

 

[gilman]

Normally you would now slowly increase effluent flow rate, say to 65 ml/ min, and bump up your bubble count. Then measure the alk of you effluent again.

What is the bubble rate now, and the effluent alk?

I cant really measure bubble rate as I cant tune a consistent bubble count going in . It releases bubbles at different rates . Sometimes a few constant one after another or just a burst of inconsistent bubbles.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im ready JDA to fly you down here and help me get set up on reactor !!

 

[jda]

If your bubbles are inconsistent, then get another 3-5 pounds on the low pressure side of the regulator.

Once you get everything constant and consistent, then that is when you test effluent dKh, measure output mililiters and count bubbles.

 

[gilman]

If your bubbles are inconsistent, then get another 3-5 pounds on the low pressure side of the regulator.

Once you get everything constant and consistent, then that is when you test effluent dKh, measure output mililiters and count bubbles.

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Thats the reg I have .

 

[foxt]

Do I read that correctly - you can not adjust the low pressure side of the reg? What do your two pressure guages read?