Yellow Tang fin damage or disease ?

[Kieko250]

Hello all.. I’ve had my biota tang for about a year now. I recently added a regal tang about a month and noticed my yellow tangs fins were damaged. I thought it might of been tang Aggression or rocks. But just came back from a 3 day get away and noticed it’s gotten worse and worse with more cuts on its tail . It seems a little bit sluggish also. Not sure what’s causing it and doesn’t look like it’s sick physically. Any ideas?

 

[Reefer40b]

If you are just talking about the top fin then its probably old tang fighting damage. Do you have other tangs it could be fighting with or other aggressive fish?

 

[Kieko250]

If you are just talking about the top fin then its probably old tang fighting damage. Do you have other tangs it could be fighting with or other aggressive fish?

just the blue hippo tang I added about 2 months ago. And two davinci clowns.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The lethargy would be unrelated to that minor fin damage, although it isn’t a symptom of a specific issue, watch the fish closely; especially its breathing rate and appetite.
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

My suspect would be the clowns.
Best bet is to leave cell phone on video for a couple of hours and you may find the culprit

 

[Kieko250]

Thanks. I’ll watch it a bit more

 

[Kieko250]

Hi guys. It’s been almost a month. And it seems the fin damage is getting worse. I haven’t seen any aggression between the other fish. Any ideas? Disease Fin erosion?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is beginning to get clearer to me now: has the lethargy resolved at all? Is the fish feeding ok? The hepatus tang in the background has either the start of HLLE, or it has a similar syndrome termed "epithelial thinning". Here is the weird thing about yellow tangs - when they develop those issues, they look different - the main symptom is fin erosion with clear margins (as opposed to red/inflamed margins). Here is an image of one with severe HLLE:

In this case, carbon use was the culprit...


Jay

 

[Kieko250]

This is beginning to get clearer to me now: has the lethargy resolved at all? Is the fish feeding ok? The hepatus tang in the background has either the start of HLLE, or it has a similar syndrome termed "epithelial thinning". Here is the weird thing about yellow tangs - when they develop those issues, they look different - the main symptom is fin erosion with clear margins (as opposed to red/inflamed margins). Here is an image of one with severe HLLE:

In this case, carbon use was the culprit...


Jay

Yellow tang is back to normal. Swimming and eating away. Just the fin is getting worse and looks like the bottom fin is starting also. I should remove carbon?

 

[Kieko250]

Have also been feeding green seaweed every other day.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yellow tang is back to normal. Swimming and eating away. Just the fin is getting worse and looks like the bottom fin is starting also. I should remove carbon?

That depends - what type of carbon are you using? Removing the carbon often doesn't change anything because the causative agent (likely the carbon dust) is already in the tank...

Jay

 

[Kieko250]

I see. I just use basic aquarium carbon off Amazon. More water changes for now ?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I see. I just use basic aquarium carbon off Amazon. More water changes for now ?

Yes, but mostly try to siphon out any dust/detritus from your sump and use a siphon clean on your substrate. I've found that carbon dust from months prior, if left in a tank, can still cause HLLE. Lignite carbon is definitely the worst. I've not heard of any issues with Chemi-Pure, and pelleted carbon, if rinsed first in RO/DI isn't too bad.

Jay

 

[Kieko250]

Thanks for the help!

 

[Otter Water Reefing]

Yes, but mostly try to siphon out any dust/detritus from your sump and use a siphon clean on your substrate. I've found that carbon dust from months prior, if left in a tank, can still cause HLLE. Lignite carbon is definitely the worst. I've not heard of any issues with Chemi-Pure, and pelleted carbon, if rinsed first in RO/DI isn't too bad.

Jay

I have been trying to stop and rehab some dorsal fin and HLLE issues on my 3 yellow tangs for about a month now. I have been running RedSea carbon changed every 2 wks but rinse it very well in tap water and final rinse in RODI for a while now, but worry it could be a contributor. I run it passively in filter sock. 200mL in 100g system. I have a very full reef and worry the not running the carbon may affect the reef but don't want the tangs to get worse.

The tangs all suffered HLLE in QT and have largely recovered their scarring (largest one recovered 100% and isn't showing any HLLE, maybe a couple minor spots of dorsal fin damage, though could be aggression caused), but I noticed the smaller two's old scarring seemed to be getting worse in Oct/Nov before I had to leave town for a couple months , so I couldn't change their care program until I got home. Unfortunately they got worse while I was gone.

Do you think perhaps I switch to Kent Marine pellet carbon or try not running carbon for a while and see how the tank and tangs respond?

I offer them a variety of flake food (Seachem chorella and marine plus flakes, PE mysis flakes, neptune pellets), variety of frozen 2-3x/week (rod's, mysis, spirulina brine). Both dry and frozen food is soaked in Selcom and Vitachem. They also get 3 types of nori and chaeto on algae grazers. I ordered some Seachem Vitality and BRS spirulina powder to add to the supplement rotation.

It seems since beginning to offer chaeto and adding Vitachem in early January that I believe their scarring and fin erosion has reached a plateau and maybe reversing. Still not certain on what to do about the carbon. Consensus sounds like if suffering HLLE or dorsal issues on yellow tangs that we should stop running carbon or switch to pellet.

I plan to offer them LRS frozen food, hear great things about that food, and add the additional supplements.

Wondering if you have any suggestions for how to review/revise/refine their diet. Right now my approach is offer a large variety and different supplements to cover all the bases but maybe that's not the best approach? Thanks for your time, sorry for the long post!

 

[Otter Water Reefing]

The tangs don't look malnourished. The biggest is definitely the fattest and has the least issues. Perhaps a hierarchy has played a role in their current condition/stress/nutrition/feeding. They are a little chippy with each other but overall seem to get on ok.

I began offering two algae grazing spots with all 4 types of algae several weeks ago after noticing they no longer all seemed to happily graze together on one grazer like they used to. They have been in the display together for over 2 years.

I will try to get some good images of their current condition. Just shined a headlamp on them to get a look - the one with the worst dorsal fin condition has some discoloration in the center of the dorsal fin and slight redness when under the light, it almost looks like seeing blood vessels? The edge of the damaged fin does not seem to exhibit redness. Does that indicate anything of significance or usefulness in addressing the issue?

I have observed the largest YT heal some damage on his tail fin in the recent week that I think was caused by another YT.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have been trying to stop and rehab some dorsal fin and HLLE issues on my 3 yellow tangs for about a month now. I have been running RedSea carbon changed every 2 wks but rinse it very well in tap water and final rinse in RODI for a while now, but worry it could be a contributor. I run it passively in filter sock. 200mL in 100g system. I have a very full reef and worry the not running the carbon may affect the reef but don't want the tangs to get worse.

The tangs all suffered HLLE in QT and have largely recovered their scarring (largest one recovered 100% and isn't showing any HLLE, maybe a couple minor spots of dorsal fin damage, though could be aggression caused), but I noticed the smaller two's old scarring seemed to be getting worse in Oct/Nov before I had to leave town for a couple months , so I couldn't change their care program until I got home. Unfortunately they got worse while I was gone.

Do you think perhaps I switch to Kent Marine pellet carbon or try not running carbon for a while and see how the tank and tangs respond?

I offer them a variety of flake food (Seachem chorella and marine plus flakes, PE mysis flakes, neptune pellets), variety of frozen 2-3x/week (rod's, mysis, spirulina brine). Both dry and frozen food is soaked in Selcom and Vitachem. They also get 3 types of nori and chaeto on algae grazers. I ordered some Seachem Vitality and BRS spirulina powder to add to the supplement rotation.

It seems since beginning to offer chaeto and adding Vitachem in early January that I believe their scarring and fin erosion has reached a plateau and maybe reversing. Still not certain on what to do about the carbon. Consensus sounds like if suffering HLLE or dorsal issues on yellow tangs that we should stop running carbon or switch to pellet.

I plan to offer them LRS frozen food, hear great things about that food, and add the additional supplements.

Wondering if you have any suggestions for how to review/revise/refine their diet. Right now my approach is offer a large variety and different supplements to cover all the bases but maybe that's not the best approach? Thanks for your time, sorry for the long post!

Reversing HLLE is hit or miss, but in all cases, the longer the fish has the lesions, the less likely that it can be reversed. Just stopping carbon use won't help, because there is carbon dust still in the tank. Moving the fish to a new tank has shown to have benefit, as long as no carbon has been used on it. Diet changes, although a good idea just on principle, do not by themselves reverse this. Can you post pictures of your tangs?

Jay

 

[Otter Water Reefing]

Reversing HLLE is hit or miss, but in all cases, the longer the fish has the lesions, the less likely that it can be reversed. Just stopping carbon use won't help, because there is carbon dust still in the tank. Moving the fish to a new tank has shown to have benefit, as long as no carbon has been used on it. Diet changes, although a good idea just on principle, do not by themselves reverse this. Can you post pictures of your tangs?

Jay

Thanks for taking the time to read my excessive detailing and respond. I will try for some current images. The smaller two are pretty camera shy. Reversing the scarring and fin damage isn't my biggest concern, but I don't want them to be slowly withering away.

Unfortunately moving them to a different tank (or capturing them, rather) would be extremely difficult so we may just be stuck with the system they're currently in.

The largest tang has healed over 5mm of torn fin since yesterday (the gap toward back of dorsal fin was maybe 3mm wide and 8-10mm deep two days ago, now almost gone), which seems really impressive and like a good sign, but I'm not sure if there is a difference in healing damage from another fish compared to "erosion". Either way, good to see.

From what I can tell the largest YT doesn't have any HLLE or fin erosion. Does it seem like much of an indicator as to the cause of the issues with the other two tangs? If carbon dust was main cause wouldn't we likely see all 3 tangs showing HLLE signs? Or maybe social hierarchy created stress issues/less access to food? I left a plastic mirror in the tank for a while in January to try and redirect the some aggression (which had seemed to appear/change over the last 9mo) and restructure their social balance - this seemed to help.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for taking the time to read my excessive detailing and respond. I will try for some current images. The smaller two are pretty camera shy. Reversing the scarring and fin damage isn't my biggest concern, but I don't want them to be slowly withering away.

Unfortunately moving them to a different tank (or capturing them, rather) would be extremely difficult so we may just be stuck with the system they're currently in.

The largest tang has healed over 5mm of torn fin since yesterday (the gap toward back of dorsal fin was maybe 3mm wide and 8-10mm deep two days ago, now almost gone), which seems really impressive and like a good sign, but I'm not sure if there is a difference in healing damage from another fish compared to "erosion". Either way, good to see.

From what I can tell the largest YT doesn't have any HLLE or fin erosion. Does it seem like much of an indicator as to the cause of the issues with the other two tangs? If carbon dust was main cause wouldn't we likely see all 3 tangs showing HLLE signs? Or maybe social hierarchy created stress issues/less access to food? I left a plastic mirror in the tank for a while in January to try and redirect the some aggression (which had seemed to appear/change over the last 9mo) and restructure their social balance - this seemed to help.

So - the fish could just be fighting, and then, there may not be HLLE at all. Attached is a pretty classic image of a YT with HLLE.

Jay