Zoa ID - Alien Anti Venoms?

[SauceyReef]

Any idea what zoas these are? I’m thinking alien anti venom, but it could be pandora, Sakura sunrise, or Halle berries

 

[SPR1968]

I can’t help with the question, but I can bump the thread to see if we can get you some assistance

 

[SauceyReef]

I can’t help with the question, but I can bump the thread to see if we can get you some assistance

Thank you! Much appreciated. There seem to be quite a lot of variations of alien anti venom which can make IDing confusing. I went to LEAR frag fest this Saturday, and saw a BUNCH of zoas looking like these. Some were called AAV, others were called another morph name that I cant quite remember.

 

[littlebigreef]

The Sakura group, playboy bunnies, halle berries are all part of the same group, the pandoras are similar but unique in that their color pattern is broken/dusted in the middle.

As for the others there's few, if any, defining characteristics that are unique to anyone strain that aren't prone to morphing. That, coupled with the names being used pretty interchangeably by vendors doesn't give us an originator to point to the OG (different people were calling them different names when they debuted). Saying one has more or less gold/yellow/orange isn't particularly useful though alien antivemon and playboys tend* to have slightly less* of this color and its usually* more focused around the mouth whereas Sakuras it normally* extends all the way to the skirt.

So all that taken into account I'd be inclined to say they look most like Sakura as they sit, but if you called it any of the others I wouldn't necessarily say you're wrong given how much they morph.

 

[SauceyReef]

The Sakura group, playboy bunnies, halle berries are all part of the same group, the pandoras are similar but unique in that their color pattern is broken/dusted in the middle.

As for the others there's few, if any, defining characteristics that are unique to anyone strain that aren't prone to morphing. That, coupled with the names being used pretty interchangeably by vendors doesn't give us an originator to point to the OG (different people were calling them different names when they debuted). Saying one has more or less gold/yellow/orange isn't particularly useful though alien antivemon and playboys tend* to have slightly less* of this color and its usually* more focused around the mouth whereas Sakuras it normally* extends all the way to the skirt.

So all that taken into account I'd be inclined to say they look most like Sakura as they sit, but if you called it any of the others I wouldn't necessarily say you're wrong given how much they morph.

Well that is an awesome response. These were sold to me as alien anti venoms, but I guess it is time to start telling people they are Sakuras for now. Looking through photos online, Sakuras seem to be the closest physical representation I can find. Based off of your info, I can say they can possibly morph to the others mentioned?

Getting into the complexities of the reef tank more over time, I am becoming incredibly fascinated with morphologies. Not only that, I find the jargon used by reefers interesting as they define coloration patterns. Even if Alien Anti Venoms, Sakuras, Halle Berries, etc can all morph into each other and are one species - it is very interesting we create names to represent the current physical traits / color patterns.

Do you know if there's a current legitimate database for zoanthids?
http://www.zoabrary.com/ I found this one online but haven't really dug through it.

 

[Kasrift]

Well that is an awesome response. These were sold to me as alien anti venoms, but I guess it is time to start telling people they are Sakuras for now. Looking through photos online, Sakuras seem to be the closest physical representation I can find. Based off of your info, I can say they can possibly morph to the others mentioned?

Getting into the complexities of the reef tank more over time, I am becoming incredibly fascinated with morphologies. Not only that, I find the jargon used by reefers interesting as they define coloration patterns. Even if Alien Anti Venoms, Sakuras, Halle Berries, etc can all morph into each other and are one species - it is very interesting we create names to represent the current physical traits / color patterns.

Do you know if there's a current legitimate database for zoanthids?
http://www.zoabrary.com/ I found this one online but haven't really dug through it.

Zoanthids.com have one of the more extensive libraries online for zoas.

 

[SauceyReef]

Zoanthids.com have one of the more extensive libraries online for zoas.

Thank you!

 

[littlebigreef]

Well that is an awesome response. These were sold to me as alien anti venoms, but I guess it is time to start telling people they are Sakuras for now. Looking through photos online, Sakuras seem to be the closest physical representation I can find. Based off of your info, I can say they can possibly morph to the others mentioned?

Getting into the complexities of the reef tank more over time, I am becoming incredibly fascinated with morphologies. Not only that, I find the jargon used by reefers interesting as they define coloration patterns. Even if Alien Anti Venoms, Sakuras, Halle Berries, etc can all morph into each other and are one species - it is very interesting we create names to represent the current physical traits / color patterns.

Do you know if there's a current legitimate database for zoanthids?
http://www.zoabrary.com/ I found this one online but haven't really dug through it.

Zoabrary is a good reference. I'd received credentials and was helping to update descriptions and images right when the pandemic hit. My motivation sort of petered out, I don't believe the owner is actively maintaining it. So, I'm doubtful that it will have many of the newer strains that arrived in the hobby in recent years.

The thing with zoa IDs is that people can take them as seriously as they want but in my experience it usually comes down to a few things:

• Provenance - who named the OG strain (if applicable).
• Bucket strains - we don't need multiple IDs for superficial differences, hence fire and ice, blueberry fields, watermelons all encompass multiple strains- this reduces superficial redundancy. A rasta will only ever be a rasta.
• ID's built on distinguishing characteristics - if its something that can/will morph it isn't a good trait. Candy Apple Reds are a huge group but within that group Shazams, Hephastus (for example) are unique. This takes years of looking at stuff across different conditions (lighting, water, etc) to really get a feel for.
• Recognition - this always makes me laugh when someone says 'no name, I'll call it this.' Certainly within everyone's right to do that but at a larger level names are only useful if recognized by multiple sources (vendors, hobbyists). So, if you google image Halle Berry, Sakura, and Alien anitvemon you see a bunch of the exact same pictures. This is why provenance is so important... otherwise no one is really wrong and multiple IDs are all correct... which makes it not a very useful ID.

 

[SauceyReef]

Zoabrary is a good reference. I'd received credentials and was helping to update descriptions and images right when the pandemic hit. My motivation sort of petered out, I don't believe the owner is actively maintaining it. So, I'm doubtful that it will have many of the newer strains that arrived in the hobby in recent years.

The thing with zoa IDs is that people can take them as seriously as they want but in my experience it usually comes down to a few things:

• Provenance - who named the OG strain (if applicable).
• Bucket strains - we don't need multiple IDs for superficial differences, hence fire and ice, blueberry fields, watermelons all encompass multiple strains- this reduces superficial redundancy. A rasta will only ever be a rasta.
• ID's built on distinguishing characteristics - if its something that can/will morph it isn't a good trait. Candy Apple Reds are a huge group but within that group Shazams, Hephastus (for example) are unique. This takes years of looking at stuff across different conditions (lighting, water, etc) to really get a feel for.
• Recognition - this always makes me laugh when someone says 'no name, I'll call it this.' Certainly within everyone's right to do that but at a larger level names are only useful if recognized by multiple sources (vendors, hobbyists). So, if you google image Halle Berry, Sakura, and Alien anitvemon you see a bunch of the exact same pictures. This is why provenance is so important... otherwise no one is really wrong and multiple IDs are all correct... which makes it not a very useful ID.

Good points! I feel like the hobby could really use a solid database to use (that is not linked to someone trying to sell). Than certain Zoas morphs that have multiple names for the exact same coloration/appearance may be able to find a common name. I think bucket strains are just a natural occurrence from a lack of a database and agreed upon name across the country/world.

Over time a database could really show a tree or timeline of where zoanthids are going, or could possibly morph into. For example it would be nice to see a database where one can see larger groups, than click on the group and see the current known morphs. For example as we spoke about earlier the Sakura group, or People Eaters would be a good one as there are many zoa morphs that come from this with the distinguished neon blue stripes on the skin. With something like this one could find original lines.