An experiment that worked!

[uniquecorals]

Hi Everyone,

As you know, we have more than a casual interest in Scolymia here at Unique Corals...In fact, we have dozens and dozens of them in stock at our facility at any given time, only a handful of which are on our site on a typical day. We're not Scoly "experts", but we have learned a few things about their care.

As guys who like to propagate corals, we've always thought about the possibilities of fragging Scolymia. Now, this is not a breathtaking, never-before-accomplished-feat. Calfo wrote about it a decade ago in his "Book of Coral Propagation", and countless others have probably tried this. However, for us, used to seeing lots of nice intact Scolys of all sorts, the idea of sawing up a perfectly good Scoly in the interest of science and capitalism was a bit scary.

However, curiosity won out over fear, and we forged ahead. A few months back, we put one of our Aussie Bleeding Apple Scolys "under the knife", mounted the divisions on frag plugs, dipped them, placed them in one of our raceways, fed them, and hoped for the best. And guess what? Not only did the divisions survive, they healed up and began to color up more, and gradually grow towards the full circular shape that we all know!

Again, this is not totally unexpected, nor earth-shattering as coral fragging goes. It's just a bit out-of-the-ordinary for us, operating on a commercial scale, so it's been cause for some excitement! The first frags of this have been offered for sale, with the latest one just placed on the UC website today! We're not sure, but to our knowledge, Scoly frags have seldom been offered for sale, so this is an interesting avenue for us.

Scolymia australis -UC Propagated "Bleeding Apple" Scolymia - Approx 1.5"- WYSIWYG Frag

Perhaps the most exciting part for us is to see how hardy the frags have been. We're also excited because we can offer these corals at a lower price point than fully grow specimens, which gives more hobbyists an opportunity to work with these corals that might have previously been cost-prohibitive for them, which is really cool! All it requires is a bit of patience on behalf of the hobbyist.

Where things will really get exciting is when we can frag a fully-grown frag and offer F2's. That can be a first step in reducing the pressure off of wild populations, perhaps reducing the number of specimens that are collected. It's a natural extension of our work and ethos, so we're excited.

Has anyone had success with fragging Scolys before? Would love to see your before/after/growth shots!

Thanks,

Scott Fellman and Joseph Caparatta
Unique Corals

 

[RichieT]

That's awesome. So did you quarter them with each quarter getting a little of the mouth? How long was it before the mouth fully closed back up and formed another full mouth?

 

[reid429]

Great ness but should t 1/4 of a bleeding apple amount to 1/4 of the original pricing?

 

[Joker79]

Amazing experience and beautiful scoly!!! :bounce:

 

[Au Alum]

If it was 1/4 the pricing then they wouldn't have any profit incentive to frag them.

 

[Peterock]

Great ness but should t 1/4 of a bleeding apple amount to 1/4 of the original pricing?

LOL, was thinking the same thing. Although this was rather upfront: "in the interest of science and capitalism"

 

[uniquecorals]

Good point and questions by all!

We did cut evenly to get part of the central mouth, and they healed up nicely...And feed well. We were impressed with the vigor of the frags, to be quite honest.

As for the long term; it's a work in progress, and we're still trying to figure out the nuances of it all.

And as for the economics, quite frankly, we're still not set in stone. We figure that a typical decent BA Scoly retails out around $200 or more. However, the propagated corals require a bit more care initially, and more "labor", so we feel a price of $88 works for this first limited batch..The goal is to get the prices WAAY down, so that its well below $100 in the future. We'll see. Bottom line is, we'd like to see if there is market interest, and try to make it as affordable as possible.


This is why your feedback is so important to us. Without you, our fans, giving us frank and honest feedback, there is no way we can improve our services and products...So a big THANK YOU for all of your support!

-Scott

 

[reid429]

If it was 1/4 the pricing then they wouldn't have any profit incentive to frag them.

1/4 of the highly inflate original pricing isn't too bad. What's next a master scoly fragged 4 ways at $500 a frag. Bleeding apple scolys at most are $200 full. Why buy a frag at 110 and wait. Not downing anything. Just trying to see if this helps the ocean and retailer only and not the consumer

 

[Acroholic]

These guys have got to make a living. Water, salt, electricity, labor, etc., are not free. Another thing is that the eco-minded approach is not always the cheapest, either. It is a conscious choice to buy something that is captive propagated, and not always less expensive. If successful, then economies of scale may come in and reduce the price later on.

 

[uniquecorals]

LOL, was thinking the same thing. Although this was rather upfront: "in the interest of science and capitalism"

LOL Glad you noticed my less than subtle mention of "capitalism!"

After all, our creditors really couldn't care less about our altruism and ethics, unfortunately! We are not a "non-profit" business, and we have been very good about holding the line on prices and shipping costs. However, we're still finding our way on some stuff! one thing I do know, is that, in the "race to the bottom of the pricing structure", there is always someone cheaper; always someone willing to go bankrupt quicker than you are..a business truism. We're not apologetic about not being that guy!

I think it's really a fine art; pricing corals. And since we are dealing with a limited quantity of pieces in a previously unknown area of the market, this could prove interesting. We'll have to establish a real long-term price for this type of frag if it proves popular.

Again, we love the dialogue and feedback! This is a very cool thing.

Thanks,

Scott

 

[uniquecorals]

1/4 of the highly inflate original pricing isn't too bad. What's next a master scoly fragged 4 ways at $500 a frag. Bleeding apple scolys at most are $200 full. Why buy a frag at 110 and wait. Not downing anything. Just trying to see if this helps the ocean and retailer only and not the consumer

Ahh...you're getting to the real Holy Grail! If we could find a way to get a several thousand dollar Scoly down to a realistic cost per frag, THAT'S a big success.. We'll keep experimenting. The problem is, most vendors want to make the fast buck and unload the Master at $1500-$2500 ASAP. It takes a great deal of confidence to cut up a "sure thing" and wait several months before releasing frags of it. We've done this before with other corals, and it's a big risk. However, in the end, our goal is to give our most valuable people- our customers- what they want while still trying to stay in business!

And how much impact will this have on the environment? Sadly, it's probably not going to be much...And you touch on the point...why would a consumer want to wait months for a fully developed propagated Scoly when he/she could grab a whole one for not a ton more...Hard to say. It's the same dilemma we ran into with the Eco Labeled PNG fish last year...It's about what the consumer perceives as important..

Scott

 

[reid429]

Good point and questions by all!

We did cut evenly to get part of the central mouth, and they healed up nicely...And feed well. We were impressed with the vigor of the frags, to be quite honest.

As for the long term; it's a work in progress, and we're still trying to figure out the nuances of it all.

And as for the economics, quite frankly, we're still not set in stone. We figure that a typical decent BA Scoly retails out around $200 or more. However, the propagated corals require a bit more care initially, and more "labor", so we feel a price of $110 works for this first limited batch..The goal is to get the prices WAAY down, so that its well below $100 in the future. We'll see. Bottom line is, we'd like to see if there is market interest, and try to make it as affordable as possible.

This I very awesome of you guys and I'm sure your bit the first to discover this so that people keep paying some of those prices. I applaud you
This is why your feedback is so important to us. Without you, our fans, giving us frank and honest feedback, there is no way we can improve our services and products...So a big THANK YOU for all of your support!

-Scott

You guys are awesome for this. I'm sure your bit the first to discover this as a vendor and in glad you showed it can be done rather than doing it and creating 100 master scolys lol

 

[Diamond Jack]

Well done! Must have been crazy sawing a scoly. Glad it worked out!

 

[uniquecorals]

Well done! Must have been crazy sawing a scoly. Glad it worked out!

It was a bit scary, to be honest! I mean, it should work fine, but Scolys are just not one of those corals you typically associate with fragging! I was most impressed by both the fast recovery time and the growth pattern. It seems like they just got better each week, with no real setbacks. I don't think we did anything too "earth-shattering", procedure-wise, but I think that the strong flow in our systems seems to promote coral healing in general, and happily, the Scolys were no exception.

Oh, and to keep going back to the coral-economics aspect...The goal is not to flood the market with cheap "Master Scolys." However, much like with Chalices that we sell for $48-$98 for a 3/4"-1" frag, while some vendors sell single "eyes" of the same coral for a laughable several hundred dollars...it's about ethics and our personal values. The perception of our brand exists in the minds of our customers, as does the value for the corals that we sell. If we offer a product at a price that's out of step with reality, it won't sell. Period. However, if the perceived value is in line with the perception our consumers have for the coral, it will sell. The fact is, though, that when you get good at propagating something, you can bring the prices down to a reasonable level that benefits the consumer, while still creating profit for the vendor. What those prices are is not an exact science. but it is a beauty of capitalism, undeniably.

Scolys in particular, do seem to have inflated prices at first glance. However, when you factor in the economic realities, it's not that crazy. Let's say a Scoly costs $50 from the collector. Great, right? Nope. Next, you have to get it to the US! That means, to make it worth your while, you have to get dozens.That adds up. And those boxes have a box charge, airfreight costs, and customs charges and tariffs. Unfortunately, the 747 from Sydney doesn't stop at our warehouse on the way to LAX, so we have to send an employee down in a vehicle that needs gasoline, insurance, and maintenance. The employee requires worker's compensation and other insurance, and is paid even when he's sitting in traffic and waiting in line at Fish and Wildlife to clear customs.

Then, the dozens of boxes are loaded and unloaded at the facility by a staff. Corals are acclimated, dipped, sorted, quarantined and ultimately moved to their final position in our raceways. That's before we even think of selling them. And, since we are not all about a quick buck, unlike many in our industry, we sit on them for a week or two to make sure that they are in good condition. Remember, the coral could die before we ever even have a chance to sell it. Risk...part of our business. Then, we photograph them, edit the photos, price them, write up descriptions, and place them on the website...So by the time you see that $50 coral, it's been inflated to many times what its collected cost was. Just a reality. That is for ANY coral that is brought in from the wild. And quality has a price, too. Better quality specimens are flat-out more expensive at all levels.

I think that this gives you a bit of perspective on the realities of coral economics...not as cut and dry as one might think. I didn't even touch on the most important part: What's best for the animals? And look, the economics are a part of the business..not complaining here, because we knew that going in. part of the game! It's part of the reason why propagated coral frags are ultimately more of a value for the consumer. Even factoring in the labor costs, etc., they are better value in many cases. When you make a choice to spend money on a coral, it's about the value it holds for you. If you choose to pay $400 for an eye of a wild Chalice that you can get propagated for $68 for a 1" frag- it's a choice based on your values. If the crazy name is more important than what the coral actually looks like, then I suppose it's a good buy? As long as consumers support non-sustainable absurdities like that, you'll see microchips selling for hundreds of dollars.


Ok, off my soapbox for now...This was not directed at anyone in particular, but it seemed like an opportune moment to comment on the economics of coral!

Scott

 

[RichieT]

From what you've seen so far what do you think the extrapolated time frame is for a decent looking scoly forming from one of the quarters. I'm pretty surprised how fast it's already progressed.

 

[uniquecorals]

From what you've seen so far what do you think the extrapolated time frame is for a decent looking scoly forming from one of the quarters. I'm pretty surprised how fast it's already progressed.

Good question! I'm thinking that to get a fully round Scoly, it's probably going to take at least 8 months, based on the growth rate we've seen. What will be interesting will be to see if there is any factor that can be thrown into play to decrease the time. Flow, light, temperature, and feeding are all dynamics in the mix. It may just be that there is not a single "magic bullet" parameter that really slingshots growth ahead wildly. Healing is the first step, which came very quickly (like within the first month). The expanded morphology took a bit longer...Coloration improved at a noticeable clip almost weekly!

The key ingredient here, like most things "reef", is patience. There simply may be no rushing the growth process!

If anyone has tried this at home, we'd love to hear more of your experiences.

Scott

 

[RichieT]

Good question! I'm thinking that to get a fully round Scoly, it's probably going to take at least 8 months, based on the growth rate we've seen. What will be interesting will be to see if there is any factor that can be thrown into play to decrease the time. Flow, light, temperature, and feeding are all dynamics in the mix. It may just be that there is not a single "magic bullet" parameter that really slingshots growth ahead wildly. Healing is the first step, which came very quickly (like within the first month). The expanded morphology took a bit longer...Coloration improved at a noticeable clip almost weekly!

The key ingredient here, like most things "reef", is patience. There simply may be no rushing the growth process!

If anyone has tried this at home, we'd love to hear more of your experiences.

Scott

I think the really cool thing to watch is how the color comes back in. What kind of patterns will you get on the regrown part and will it have similar characteristics to the mother.

You guys could get all Frankenstein on us and see if you can graft two scoly halves together.

I call dibs on the first Frankenscoly, and reserve all rights to the term Frankenscoly

 

[uniquecorals]

I think the really cool thing to watch is how the color comes back in. What kind of patterns will you get on the regrown part and will it have similar characteristics to the mother.

You guys could get all Frankenstein on us and see if you can graft two scoly halves together.

I call dibs on the first Frankenscoly, and reserve all rights to the term Frankenscoly

Well, that's kind of interesting, because we were surprised that the red/orange bars showed up on some of the frags that had minimal red/ornage in them! Plus, the center orange color appears to be more pronounced in the frags. This begs the question- is the pattern in a Scoly a genetically-determined thing, or an environmentally-linked event? And, if it is genetic, are the frags going to become exact clones of the mother colony, as you point out. So far, it appears NOT to be the case, but the coloration is significant. We will definitely have to do more experimentation, and document it much better on our next run.

I like the novelty of a "grafted" Scoly...That may be one for my pal Justin (Credebal) at ReefGen, as he's done much work with grafted Acans...Can't imagine why it wouldn't work with a Scoly? Now you're bringing out the ubergeek hobbyists in me! This could be fun!

Ok, you can have dibs on the first one, if we could actually pull it off!

Scott

 

[lovemyreef]

My bleeding apple almost died in a tank crash but after some time I ended up with 3 small ones that actually have better color than the original.
I will post some pics next week when I am back in town.

 

[uniquecorals]

My bleeding apple almost died in a tank crash but after some time I ended up with 3 small ones that actually have better color than the original.
I will post some pics next week when I am back in town.

Cool, please do!