An opinion and experience of keeping Moorish idols

[Sean Clark]

Exactly - and then our response, as a community, is “great write up, bro!”

Embarrassing.

Again, if you have any experience to share that would be appreciated.

 

[CincyReefer07]

Exactly - and then our response, as a community, is “great write up, bro!”

Embarrassing.

I do agree that too many times, especially in fb groups, people are way too harsh and just extremely negative and sometimes even insulting which has no place in the hobby. The hobby needs to be fun, and enjoyable and a learning experience for all of all knowledge levels. But at the same time, have to be truthful with people, don’t have to put anyone down necessarily, we want the hobby to be welcoming. But at the same time, some people need to be made aware of what bad mistakes they are making for the life they are trying to maintain in their tanks as well as for the good of the hobby.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Beautiful batch !!
I had a trio about 2+ years ago and they were easy to feed, peaceful but took a liking to my softies and it was painful to sell them

 

[香港reefer]

It seems pretty irresponsible to me. It's alarming that some of you seem to be OK with this. We're not in this hobby to experiment with the lives of animals - sure, things happen. We do our best to take care of them, some of them are challenging. But to continue to buy them to a count of 12, fail at caring for them (beyond even 3 months), then go on a forum to post "advice" seems pretty wrong to me. So yeah, I object.

yep, I'm aware, I stopped buying these again for some time already, realized it is not humane to experiment on fish

 

[Anemone_Fanatic]

This is a very sensitive and controversial topic, but could we please try to keep our conversation civil? Many people are trying to use R2R to educate themselves about various topics, but arguments like this can go on for pages and discourage learning. In the case of such disagreements and controversy like this, we should use good, polite discourse. Personally, I believe these fish do not belong in our tanks, and won't until they are captive bred, but attacking people over it isn't right. We should discuss this using actual conversation, not attacks and counter-attacks. This hobby should be enjoyable for all, and arguing on this forum goes against that. This forum is the best reefing forum on the internet, and one of the reasons for this is the supportive, thoughtful, and sensible community. Can we please keep our conversation civil?

 

[REEFER-RICK]

Got his off a web site
The Moorish Idol tends to be very peaceful. Due to its size, schooling nature, and need for swimming space, it requires a large aquarium of at least 125 gallons. As its beauty is most evident while swimming, giving it adequate room is well rewarded. It is compatible with most fish and larger invertebrates, but should not be kept with any polyps or corals, which it will eat. Small invertebrates may be threatened as well.

The Moorish Idol is a very difficult fish to feed. Live rock with large amounts of algae and sponges on which it can feed will help it acclimate. Then offer a varied diet of finely chopped meaty items, mysis shrimp, vitamin-enriched brine shrimp, Spirulina, and algae. It should be fed several times a day.

Perhaps the most graceful of all marine fish, for many hobbyists, it is also one of the most difficult fish to keep because it is so difficult to feed. For all but the most expert hobbyist, it is better admired in the ocean or in a public aquarium rather than in a home tank. Myself would safe money and stay away from them as I am no expert by far just saying as you area fish killer save your money and buy something else easier to care for

 

[Nemo&Friends]

Well that write up convinced me not to ever buy a Moorish Idol. If he convinced others, more fish will be saved.

Yes, I was upset that the OP lost 12, but it seems they are not very valuable where he lives, as they are cheap, are found at regular fish markets and can even be sold as food. Some or the Moorish Idol the OP got, were bound to die anyway, and he may have been hoping to experiment and save them at the same time. Our perspectives differ greatly due to the OP environment.

So I agree, this write up is depressing, but is also informative, and the OP took the time to let us know his errors in the hope we would avoid them. The OP is also young as he is still having to take exams and new at this hobby which can explain his numerous tries.

 

[TrishK]

In 30+ years reefing I haven't known anyone who has kept one for more than a year or so even though they've claimed they've been able to get their moorish idols to eat. I'd like to see this fish removed from availability lists myself.

I’ve had mine for over a year and a half. He’s the first one I’ve ever had and was actually sent to me by accident (orders got mixed up and I was sent someone else’s order and they got mine). I hadn’t wanted one because I knew they would eat coral...and yes Gil has wiped out over $1,000 worth of coral ‍ He’s beautiful though and fat and happy. Was about the size of a silver dollar when I got him and is HUGE now. I couldn’t even tell you how big he is as he never stays still LOL. He’s a stinker and is best buddies with my Hippo Tang. I feed frozen twice a day and pellets twice a day and put in algae sheets twice a day. My tank was only a little over a year old when I got him but I had a lot of pineapple sponge...don’t know if he’s ever eaten it. I do put a human immune booster powder in their frozen food and haven’t lost a fish since
Tank is 180g
UV
Run skimmer all the time

In this picture the pink fairy wrasse next to him is about 4” I would guess.

 

[i cant think]

I’ve had mine for over a year and a half. He’s the first one I’ve ever had and was actually sent to me by accident (orders got mixed up and I was sent someone else’s order and they got mine). I hadn’t wanted one because I knew they would eat coral...and yes Gil has wiped out over $1,000 worth of coral ‍ He’s beautiful though and fat and happy. Was about the size of a silver dollar when I got him and is HUGE now. I couldn’t even tell you how big he is as he never stays still LOL. He’s a stinker and is best buddies with my Hippo Tang. I feed frozen twice a day and pellets twice a day and put in algae sheets twice a day. My tank was only a little over a year old when I got him but I had a lot of pineapple sponge...don’t know if he’s ever eaten it. I do put a human immune booster powder in their frozen food and haven’t lost a fish since
Tank is 180g
UV
Run skimmer all the time

In this picture the pink fairy wrasse next to him is about 4” I would guess.

This is some great information!
I personally believe these animals can be kept in reefs however I really don’t think someone who doesn’t know much or if these animals are cheap that they should go and continually buy them try after try. I personally believe you should try and figure out what you did wrong with these animals.

We very rarely got them in when I was working in the LFS and the only time they came in was if someone was breaking down a tank or if someone wanted one. If they died we usually didn’t just go and grab another and instead we examined the body and the tank to see if we could find anything that went wrong. After finding what went wrong then we would go and grab another for the person who wanted one. We had one in our display at some point for a good year or so until we didn’t want to risk it and sold it to someone we knew had a large enough tank and the right tankmates.
We fed 4-5, sometimes 6 times a day so a lot of the fish we rather fat and many of the moorish idols that ate were fat when the buyers got theirs. What we fed was Mysis and Brine along with algae if the tanks had any algae eaters (The Idols did take to algae in most cases if we had an algae eating species in there).
We held them for 4-5 weeks and most thrived with us then when they went to their buyers we asked about it every so often (I think it was first every 6 months then if they passed the first year we’d ask every year) to make sure it was doing okay.

 

[香港reefer]

Got his off a web site
The Moorish Idol tends to be very peaceful. Due to its size, schooling nature, and need for swimming space, it requires a large aquarium of at least 125 gallons. As its beauty is most evident while swimming, giving it adequate room is well rewarded. It is compatible with most fish and larger invertebrates, but should not be kept with any polyps or corals, which it will eat. Small invertebrates may be threatened as well.

The Moorish Idol is a very difficult fish to feed. Live rock with large amounts of algae and sponges on which it can feed will help it acclimate. Then offer a varied diet of finely chopped meaty items, mysis shrimp, vitamin-enriched brine shrimp, Spirulina, and algae. It should be fed several times a day.

Perhaps the most graceful of all marine fish, for many hobbyists, it is also one of the most difficult fish to keep because it is so difficult to feed. For all but the most expert hobbyist, it is better admired in the ocean or in a public aquarium rather than in a home tank. Myself would safe money and stay away from them as I am no expert by far just saying as you area fish killer save your money and buy something else easier to care for

Yes, I don't want to hide the fact that I'm

Wait so someone that has killed 12 Moorish Idols and never kept one alive longer than 3 months is sharing advice on how to keep Moorish Idols? For real?

Please - stop buying Moorish Idols.

stopped for a while, got lectured by other hobbyists here on r2r and my local hobby group. The values and lessons I learnt from this hobby in fact are a lot more than school. Of course I don't want to hide the fact that I don't see fish as lives in the beginning of my hobby, however I slowly question that what the heck that I'm doing to them, then finally trying to think like a fish l and try to give a better environment. Thanks 4 ur advice man

 

[香港reefer]

This is some great information!
I personally believe these animals can be kept in reefs however I really don’t think someone who doesn’t know much or if these animals are cheap that they should go and continually buy them try after try. I personally believe you should try and figure out what you did wrong with these animals.

We very rarely got them in when I was working in the LFS and the only time they came in was if someone was breaking down a tank or if someone wanted one. If they died we usually didn’t just go and grab another and instead we examined the body and the tank to see if we could find anything that went wrong. After finding what went wrong then we would go and grab another for the person who wanted one. We had one in our display at some point for a good year or so until we didn’t want to risk it and sold it to someone we knew had a large enough tank and the right tankmates.
We fed 4-5, sometimes 6 times a day so a lot of the fish we rather fat and many of the moorish idols that ate were fat when the buyers got theirs. What we fed was Mysis and Brine along with algae if the tanks had any algae eaters (The Idols did take to algae in most cases if we had an algae eating species in there).
We held them for 4-5 weeks and most thrived with us then when they went to their buyers we asked about it every so often (I think it was first every 6 months then if they passed the first year we’d ask every year) to make sure it was doing okay.

Of course man, actually it hurts to see how some aquarium shops here sell fish like that, but it's a reality here and I cannot blame them. I also started to think like a fish and stop buying the gradually. I the struggle is I really want to try to keep one after I learned new things about them, but knowing that they will most likely die slowly in my hands due to disease or malnourishelment. Thanks for your advice man. Happy reefing as always

 

[i cant think]

Of course man, actually it hurts to see how some aquarium shops here sell fish like that, but it's a reality here and I cannot blame them. I also started to think like a fish and stop buying the gradually. I the struggle is I really want to try to keep one after I learned new things about them, but knowing that they will most likely die slowly in my hands due to disease or malnourishelment. Thanks for your advice man. Happy reefing as always

I’d recommend trying with similar fish of the large order Acanthuriformes. Once you build up with experience with those guys then you could try a more delicate fish, slowly building up to the moorish idol. I’d recommend if you have a sand bed to try a leopard wrasse as they can come in with many issues much like the idols can

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Well, there’s a lot of opinions here and some I agree with and some I don’t.

Two things:
1. They absolutely can be kept successful in tanks, I have kept 3 over the last 20+ years. The first one I killed fairly rapidly since I was a stupid 13 year old kid and had no idea what I was doing trying to keep such a challenging fish.
The second one I kept for around 5 years before breaking down the tank and the last one I kept for 2+ years before a freak accident saw to its demise (I feed the tank and everything was fine. Came downstairs 30min later and it had a large gash on its rostrum and was very unbalanced…I suspect it got freaked out and ran in to a rock causing neurological damage).
Not an easy fish by any means and they require real diligence to keep healthy, something most people won’t be able to sustain long term.

2. Dude, I get that you want to keep an idol but this is clearly not the fish for you. I’m not sure what the problem is since you didn’t write up how they all passed but either there’s something wrong with your supplier or you’re doing something yourself. Please figure that one out before bringing any more home.

If anyone’s interested I share some more thoughts here:

Edit: something I forgot to mention in the video is that it’s very important to give them plenty of algae and sponge in their diet, they need that fiber from the algae and the nutrients from the sponge.

 

[TrishK]

This is some great information!
I personally believe these animals can be kept in reefs however I really don’t think someone who doesn’t know much or if these animals are cheap that they should go and continually buy them try after try. I personally believe you should try and figure out what you did wrong with these animals.

We very rarely got them in when I was working in the LFS and the only time they came in was if someone was breaking down a tank or if someone wanted one. If they died we usually didn’t just go and grab another and instead we examined the body and the tank to see if we could find anything that went wrong. After finding what went wrong then we would go and grab another for the person who wanted one. We had one in our display at some point for a good year or so until we didn’t want to risk it and sold it to someone we knew had a large enough tank and the right tankmates.
We fed 4-5, sometimes 6 times a day so a lot of the fish we rather fat and many of the moorish idols that ate were fat when the buyers got theirs. What we fed was Mysis and Brine along with algae if the tanks had any algae eaters (The Idols did take to algae in most cases if we had an algae eating species in there).
We held them for 4-5 weeks and most thrived with us then when they went to their buyers we asked about it every so often (I think it was first every 6 months then if they passed the first year we’d ask every year) to make sure it was doing okay.

The frozen mix I feed the entire tank consist of PE jumbo mysis, PE regular mysis, brine, blood worms, ocean plankton, krill, rods
Original and marine cuisine. Sometimes I change it up with different options. I soak it all vitamarine M, Selcon and then open a capsule of

Pure Synergy SuperPure Beta 1,3-Glucan Extract​

and sprinkle some in depending on how much food I’m mixing. All the fish have stayed very healthy. We even added a Leopard Wrasse about a month ago and after staying hidden only a day he’s been out and eating like a champ. He’s caused two of my other wrasses to go hide though. The selcon has helped my clown pairs to start spawning too (we have a pair in our reef and our FOWLR).

The Moorish Idol (Gil) lost his banner again but I took another picture, he’s about 6-6.5” inches and very fat lol

 

[HV_Reefer24]

It is totally 100% irresponsible to have 12 fish of the same species over the span of 3 years, the longest living of them to last 3 months. And anyone who thinks this is normal is negligent at best.

Being in this hobby consists of many different variables. Water quality, diet, compatibility, chemistry and biology. Keeping these different variables in check takes patience and research/knowledge. I have been in this hobby since 2006, I have seen the growths in new technology and information on these animals. We need to encourage each other to do further research, ask different sources about the same topic. That is something we should all push each other to do!

I am excited and encouraged when i see/hear success stories of people keeping "hard to keep" fish. This entire post make me discouraged in the future of this hobby.

This should not be encouraged in any way and to make excuses for it is laughable. To be someone who has 3500 messages and say that this kind of activity pushes the hobby forward is a joke. I'm sure you have great insight on other things but i think you missed the mark on this one.

There is pushing the envelope to advance something and then there is being foolish because your ignorant. Y'all can try to wrap your head around which this one is....

 

[oceana]

I bought my one & only Moorish in Feb 2017 from Reefwise Sales online. I doubt I would have tried keeping one except for the fact that they had them already trained to eat pellets.

I did a full QT, treating with both Prazi & copper before putting him in my 200 gallon display & today a little over 5 years later, I still have him.

Over the years I’ve learned which corals I can & cannot keep with him as well as which fish. I’m surprised whenever I read that they should be kept with non-aggressive fish. My Moorish is a bully & rules my tank.

As far as what he eats, I make sure he has Nori every day, as well as Rods Foods Original Blend, chopped table shrimp, PE mysis, frozen brine & pellets. He also eats any sponge he can find on my rocks.

One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that he never stops swimming except to eat or to get a cleaning from my cleaner wrasse. Even at night. He never stops. My tank is a pentagon shape with 3 separate structures allowing him to swim in & around through the structures continuously. I think this setup has made him comfortable.

Another thing I’ve noticed is that twice now he has gone on a hunger strike which lasted days & made me nervous both times but eventually he started up again. I once read where someone else had the same experience with their Moorish so I guess it’s something they do.

So to sum it up, I’m lucky that things have worked out. I was able to get my hands on a healthy Moorish that was already eating, was able to get him to eat a variety of other foods & had an aquascape that allows him to swim continuously.

I‘m hoping to have him for many more years!

 

[Zionas]

I’m sorry, but if you’re killing many of the same fish (and one with a bad reputation in captivity) in a row, as a reefer from the same part of the world (I’ll stick to English for everyone else), I don’t think you should keep buying them nor do I think this is a species that should even be imported in most cases. If I owned an LFS I might refuse to import them altogether. If you want fish with a similar look, stick to Heniochus. That’s all I can think of. Otherwise, look for hardier fish and we can give you advice based off of your tank size and what you like.

SeaLife and some other retailers in HK get in captive bred dwarf angels from places like Bali Aquarich. If it’s a not too big tank, I’d probably stick to those instead.

BTW I’m not from HK but the mainland, just happened to meet someone based in HK here.

 

[saltagua]

I have had my moorish idol for 2 years. when buying a moorish idol make sure that you ask the pet store to feed it before you buy it. I purchased mine as a juvenile and it has a 6in streamer.

 

[Jase4224]

Omg to all the people complaining about the 12 fish the OP lost… seriously? Add up all the fish you have lost over your reefing career and apply the same judgment on yourself. I’ve lost so many fish over the last 20 years keeping fish that I hate to think about it. But I’ve had many fish that I’ve had and grown for 5+ years. Overall it’s a learning experience and practical knowledge is hard won. Do we accept losses in this hobby or not? How many corals have perished for us to learn to keep them alive at all?

Also do people forget that humans EAT FISH. And believe it or not these fish have a 100% rate of death. Any person that has complained about the OP of this thread killing 12 fish is a total hypocrite if you actually eat fish. Chances are you’ve eaten more than 12.

Anyway.. to try and add something to this conversation, it seems odd to me that a fish that has such a large natural range would be so finicky. It means that whatever it eats lives over a huge range and chances are that different locales have different species of foods suggesting that the Moorish Idol should be adaptable. They are also known to live in terrible water quality such as harbours, therefore again they must be adaptable. I have personally witnessed 100’s living in the crappy tanks in Sea World Australia about 15 years ago. The environment looked filthy and everything was green, yet there were schools of this fish I thought was impossible to keep in a bunch of the systems there.

I have a feeling the mystery of the Moorish Idol must be unlockable. Whether it has a tiny stomach, can’t handle too much of a particular ingredient or has a natural internal parasite that needs to be dealt with. It could come down to being extremely sensitive to shipping, perhaps low oxygen. Maybe it needs brown or red algae regularly?

Perhaps a dissection and comparison to its cousins the tangs could reveal some useful info about diet and digestive tract. Or some biological clues to its needs.

Whatever the secret to this fish is, it’s worth knowing. The more fish we can bring to the point of captive reproduction the better.

 

[i cant think]

Omg to all the people complaining about the 12 fish the OP lost… seriously? Add up all the fish you have lost over your reefing career and apply the same judgment on yourself. I’ve lost so many fish over the last 20 years keeping fish that I hate to think about it. But I’ve had many fish that I’ve had and grown for 5+ years. Overall it’s a learning experience and practical knowledge is hard won. Do we accept losses in this hobby or not? How many corals have perished for us to learn to keep them alive at all?

Also do people forget that humans EAT FISH. And believe it or not these fish have a 100% rate of death. Any person that has complained about the OP of this thread killing 12 fish is a total hypocrite if you actually eat fish. Chances are you’ve eaten more than 12.

Anyway.. to try and add something to this conversation, it seems odd to me that a fish that has such a large natural range would be so finicky. It means that whatever it eats lives over a huge range and chances are that different locales have different species of foods suggesting that the Moorish Idol should be adaptable. They are also known to live in terrible water quality such as harbours, therefore again they must be adaptable.

I have a feeling the mystery of the Moorish Idol must be unlockable. Whether it has a tiny stomach, can’t handle too much of a particular ingredient or has a natural internal parasite that needs to be dealt with. It could come down to being extremely sensitive to shipping, perhaps low oxygen. Maybe it needs brown or red algae regularly?

Perhaps a dissection and comparison to its cousins the tangs could reveal some useful info about diet and digestive tract. Or some biological clues to its needs.

Whatever the secret to this fish is, it’s worth knowing. The more fish we can bring to the point of captive reproduction the better.

Yes we’ve lost 12 fish, maybe more altogether. But this is over the course of 5-10+ years. The OP lost 12 of the EXACT same fish in the course of a few months.
We also know their diet, it’s primarily Sponges and Tunicates along with certain algae. It’s a fish many fail to keep in captivity usually sue to acclimation, however whilst it’s difficult in captivity it’s actually relatively well researched. I would recommend reading some of our arguments if you haven’t as then you'll get a clearer answer.