Are really stringy white poops a sign of internal parasites or is it a myth?

[MnFish1]

Perhaps better put is to say that we cannot speak to the status or condition of the distribution system in other countries. We live in the US and aren’t nearly as well-versed, and have zero experience across the pond. The point is that it may well be different from what we experience here.

I dont believe the thesis that there is a huge influx of disease in the supply chain - again I know this is heretical. But - but it isnt in the supply chain here. The fact is only 20 percent (or less) do quarantine correctly - if this didnt work - people would be flocking to the side of prophylactic treatment (I would as well). Since this is not the case, the only solution is that these tank wipe outs (while assuredly they have happened - with and without QT as you have experienced personally) 'happen'

 

[MnFish1]

In the ideal world, a person would take a fecal sample and prepare a slide then ID a parasite(s) and count the number of the properly ID’d parasite(s).

Depending on the ID and the number of parasites counted, one would decide whether to treat and how. For most common intestinal parasites there are established treatment protocols based on the “viral load” - in some cases the recommendation is not to treat if the numbers are low and in fact the fish should be rechecked on a regular basis.

Almost all treatment protocols for ornamental fish have been “borrowed” from fish farms most of which have at least a part-time trained professional perform the tasks above. Virtually none of the farmed fish are meant to live too long and thus monitoring the viral load makes sense over a period of 6-12 months over a representative population sample - we should note that most of those fish taken for examination are in fact killed so the intestinal content could be analyzed.

There are also costs and regulations associated with administering various medications, etc etc.
(I think it’s self-explanatory why the above approach would not work in an average SW tank...)

While there is no scientifically accepted visual identification of diseases there has been a correlation observed between the appearance and shape of feces in fish and for that matter other animals and potential presence of parasites. To put it in overly simplistic terms parasites strip nutrients from food and as a result the fish loses weight and excretes mucus and nutrient stripped feces along with parasites of course. The color tends to be whiteish, also the condition does not tend to improve over time.

Now could the one time white poop be caused by something else? Sure! Over time that becomes less likely. However often times the progression of the disease can be too quick to ignore and then we have to take calculated risks of whether to try treatment or let nature take its course...again, in the ideal world we would all have decent knowledge of microbiology and pathology and have a mini lab on hand and would know how to take samples from a living fish etc.

With respect @Lasse you take your argument way too far, your anecdotal experience notwithstanding.

I have never seen a parasite (white poop) in my tank in which there was not obvious weight loss, etc. Thats what Lasse is saying I think

 

[EmdeReef]

I have never seen a parasite (white poop) in my tank in which there was not obvious weight loss, etc. Thats what Lasse is saying I think

a symptom doesn’t always equal an illness - my mind is blown ;Troll

 

[DSC reef]

FYI: The way you addressed the other user would be considered by most people as disrespectful and insulting. You shouldn’t complain about things that you do yourself in the SAME POST.

;Troll;Troll seriously??

 

[MnFish1]

This is where my biggest issue is: if starvation is the liklier cause of white stringy feces than internal parasites, and starvation beforeshipping is a standard practice, why aren't a greater percentage of fish showing up with white stringy feces?

Most of the fish Ideal with are coming in direct from country of collection, and because of this my overall losses are less than when I bring in fish from wholesalers. The majority of these fish have normal feces, whereas if it was starvation related(which all of them are experiencing). A greater proportion should be showing these symptoms.

That has also been my point with discus. Adult discus are starved for at least 3 days prior to shipping, and white stringy feces are never an issue in this period, but rather when they get introduced to fish that have parasites.

All that has been pointed out is that there are other possibilities other than internal parasites, but it still seems that it is more probable that it is related to internal parasites.

This is the question. That said - many people say they have seen this (myself included) and it resolved spontaneously. I think the point is/was - do you need to treat every time there is a trace of white poop? No one is watching their fish poop 24 hours/day. But - frankly @Lasse is correct - most wholesalers recommend (and you can google it) holding feeding for xx hours before shipping to mitigate waste and ammonia in the bag.

As to Discus - I guess I disagree - I have ordered discus from one of the major houses - and for the first day - they have clear-ish waste. And subsequently - normal..

 

[MnFish1]

a symptom doesn’t always equal an illness - my mind is blown ;Troll

That was the point. It certainly seemed like you were arguing the opposite.

 

[EmdeReef]

That was the point. It certainly seemed like you were arguing the opposite.

Perhaps initially the point...as always these things get too out of hand.

 

[Mortie31]

Im in the UK which is still unfortunately part of Europe as we speak! There are sick fish sold here all the time so i dont know where all these strict regulations are? I got back into this hobby after nearly 20 years out and last time i never used to qt,acclimate or anything. This time i have qt everything i have bought,some success and also sadly some failure but i know that out of the dozen or so fish i have bought,every single one of them has something wrong with it with the majority of them having flukes. So i will carry on doing what i am doing as i am sure everyone that has posted here will carry on doing what they believe is the right thing to do. I just think its a bit wrong of some people to try to change what people are doing based on their own beliefs instead of keeping it to themselves and let people make their own decisions as i am sure most people do anyhow

Where are you buying your fish from Liz as this is the complete opposite of what I see in the Uk?

 

[Shep]

Please stay on topic and don't insult/troll other members or your posts will be removed, thank you.

 

[Mortie31]

If we are being completely truthful, I am guessing this wasn't from taking Advil for 10-14 days of your life. If so, that's really abnormal. Also, that's unfortunate, I am sorry you went through that, I could not imagine!

In clinical trials on human beings more patients died from bleeding with aspirin than those on an anticoagulant, there is far more to drugs than the public ever know...

 

[MnFish1]

Please stay on topic and don't insult/troll other members or your posts will be removed , thank you

@Shep - thanks - but no one has any clue what this means? Its like the common management 'meeting' where the manager says 'people have done this or that'. But - the problem is that every person that has done anything feels 'guilty'. Maybe it would be a good idea to approach the person who has offended someone directly - rather than a blast post. Hopefully this will not get me banned......

 

[Lasse]

I've never had a hidden agenda, I've always posted my experiences whether one agrees or not, that was my experience.

Its the same with me

FYI: The way you addressed the other user would be considered by most people as disrespectful and insulting. You shouldn’t complain about things that you do yourself in the SAME POST.

where?
Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Tank's @Shep

And the topic was
Are really stringy white poops a sign of internal parasites or is it a myth?

Not QT or not QT. Not if someone is for or against chemical prophylactic treatments. Not if someone have an agenda or not.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[HotRocks]

Tank's @Shep

And the topic was
Are really stringy white poops a sign of internal parasites or is it a myth?

Not QT or not QT. Not if someone is for or against chemical prophylactic treatments. Not if someone have an agenda or not.

Sincerely Lasse

Its all relative. When you state something that people take and put under a microscope and verify that parasites are present and call it a myth it's going to start the debate. Threads like this always do. Humblefish has done several necropsy on fish that perished with these same white stringy poop symptoms always to have parasites present.

The great thing is, we all have the same goal. Keep beautiful tanks full of healthy fish. The decision whether one decides to medicate based on a symptom without a diagnosis by putting fecal matter on a slide is up to the hobbyist. Since there are plenty of members from "both sides" I'm sure they can get sound advice whatever direction they decide to go.

No hard feelings on my end but I really wouldn't expect anyone who has taken the time to properly diagnose a disease to appreciate it being it called a "myth".

 

[Mortie31]

Despite taking antibiotics dozens of times in my life, I am quite healthy -- as are tens of millions of others.

Are you being serious? if this is how limited you understanding of antibiotic resistance works, it’s no wonder you never consider the long term implications of the medications you recommend people, on the forums to treat there fish with.. you seriously need to look at the bigger picture

 

[MnFish1]

Its all relative. When you state something that people take and put under a microscope and verify that parasites are present and call it a myth it's going to start the debate. Threads like this always do. Humblefish has done several necropsy on fish that perished with these same white stringy poop symptoms always to have parasites present.

The great thing is, we all have the same goal. Keep beautiful tanks full of healthy fish. The decision whether one decides to medicate based on a symptom without a diagnosis by putting fecal matter on a slide is up to the hobbyist. Since there are plenty of members from "both sides" I'm sure they can get sound advice whatever direction they decide to go.

No hard feelings on my end but I really wouldn't expect anyone who has taken the time to properly diagnose a disease to appreciate it being it called a "myth".

My impression - which is worth next to nothing - is that you're misinterpreting. White stringy poop (lol) CAN mean parasites - the point is/was (I think) thats its not ALWAYS the cause ( i.e. not a reason for emergency treatment). I am reallynot sure how I've gotten through 30 years of aquarium keeping (yes since I was 10) without all of these medications....

 

[DSC reef]

@HotRocks So every fish that has white poop is now declared they have a disease or parasite? If one disproves your or others theory would that not entail a "myth" that all white poop means the fish needs medication for a parasite? How did our multiple clowns with white poop thrive without meds when they had white poop? What makes @Lasse findings any less important or credible than those who've studied something different??

 

[MnFish1]

My impression - which is worth next to nothing - is that you're misinterpreting. White stringy poop (lol) CAN mean parasites - the point is/was (I think) thats its not ALWAYS the cause ( i.e. not a reason for emergency treatment). I am reallynot sure how I've gotten through 30 years of aquarium keeping (yes since I was 10) without all of these medications....

OH there is an aside here - some of my discus had white poop - I treated with fembendazole - 3/12 died. The white poop comes and goes - and whatever - all the fish are doing well 4 years later. Did the fembendazole kill them - or the imaginary parasite I 'thought' they had? IDK

 

[EmdeReef]

My impression - which is worth next to nothing - is that you're misinterpreting. White stringy poop (lol) CAN mean parasites - the point is/was (I think) thats its not ALWAYS the cause ( i.e. not a reason for emergency treatment). I am reallynot sure how I've gotten through 30 years of aquarium keeping (yes since I was 10) without all of these medications....

I Would agree with you but for the very first point Lasse makes stating in fact that white stringy poop (I cant believe what we are arguing lol...) is always a myth. Or for that matter the question asked in absolute terms with a premise that it’s either real or a myth and as I pointed out earlier the truth is in the middle but despite posting contrary arguments and studies we won’t really get anywhere and thus my comment re.beliefs etc.

Go back to page 1 or see below. I think it’s been proven many times in the last pages that it’s not (always) a myth but here we are arguing over and over. Then when called out, people get offended - sorry for my impatience but that gets old fast...and yeah we all have agendas etc etc lol

“In the disease part of the forum – it comes a lot of advises according handling stringy white poops that often show up when you buy a new fish. The general answer to this is that the fish have internal parasites – treat ASP and it is often recommended to treat with Metronidazole or its derivates. IMO – this is one of the more dangerous myths existing in the reefing community and in this short write up – I try to show why I have this standpoint”

 

[4FordFamily]

Are you being serious? if this is how limited you understanding of antibiotic resistance works, it’s no wonder you never consider the long term implications of the medications you recommend people, on the forums to treat there fish with.. you seriously need to look at the bigger picture

To be frank, I don’t see how my quote indicates that I don’t understand antibiotic resistance, nor that I don’t consider long-term ramifications.

I consider (and weigh more heavily in my view) long term existence, first. A dead fish isn’t resistant to a lot.