Benepets - How quickly does it consume PO4?

[SauceyReef]

Benepets - How quickly does it consume PO4? Seeing one is following the recommended dose.

Is this going to strip my phosphates in a month? Few months? Year?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not have confidence in the company, based on incorrect assertions they make, but the product seems essentially be organic carbon dosing built into a food. Assuming that is correct, the answer may be highly variable in both time, and in any effect on phosphate, since organic carbon dosing generally carries those variabilities.

 

[SauceyReef]

I do not have confidence in the company, based on incorrect assertions they make, but the product seems essentially be organic carbon dosing built into a food. Assuming that is correct, the answer may be highly variable in both time, and in any effect on phosphate, since organic carbon dosing generally carries those variabilities.

Interesting. Well looks like I’m about to be a test dummy! I’ll keep you updated what it does to my tank and specifically phosphate levels. Somone hear claimed it organically lowered phosphates. Live phyto has been a dream for my tank in this regards, so I thought I would give it a try.

 

[areefer01]

I do not have confidence in the company, based on incorrect assertions they make, but the product seems essentially be organic carbon dosing built into a food. Assuming that is correct, the answer may be highly variable in both time, and in any effect on phosphate, since organic carbon dosing generally carries those variabilities.

But.... "The patent-pending pre and probiotic formula is unlike anything else on the market."

 

[SauceyReef]

If it organically lowers my phosphates hey I’ll take it

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But.... "The patent-pending pre and probiotic formula is unlike anything else on the market."

That’s pretty meaningless, but this is the part of their description that makes me think that part of the claim is an organic carbon effect:

Benereef doesn’t have a high protein content but rather a high carbohydrate content which is important because if you have a higher surplus of proteins and they are broken down you reach ammonia levels that are toxic to your system and reef inhabitants.

 

[SauceyReef]

That’s pretty meaningless, but this is the part of their description that makes me think that part of the claim is an organic carbon effect:

Benereef doesn’t have a high protein content but rather a high carbohydrate content which is important because if you have a higher surplus of proteins and they are broken down you reach ammonia levels that are toxic to your system and reef inhabitants.

I think he was being sarcastic haha.

Do you think this "organic carbon effect" is helping to lower the PO4 over time? Or is that from their claims of the bacteria consuming it than being consumed itself similar to phyto.

 

[areefer01]

That’s pretty meaningless, but this is the part of their description that makes me think that part of the claim is an organic carbon effect:

Benereef doesn’t have a high protein content but rather a high carbohydrate content which is important because if you have a higher surplus of proteins and they are broken down you reach ammonia levels that are toxic to your system and reef inhabitants.

I know. I was being a bit sarcastic is all. I failed at delivery

 

[areefer01]

I think he was being sarcastic haha.

Do you think this "organic carbon effect" is helping to lower the PO4 over time? Or is that from their claims of the bacteria consuming it than being consumed itself similar to phyto.

I was - good thing I'm not a comic otherwise I'd be homeless.

Just as an aside what is your phosphate at and how does the display look?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

lol, ok.

I’m skeptical of the whole concept of dosing organisms such as bacteria or phytoplankton to reduce nutrients, at least as an ongoing thing, but some folks seem to claim it works for them (others say no).

As to a food that is high in carbohydrate, that will spur bacterial growth just like sugar, ethanol, etc, and that has the potential to lower nutrients.

Their ammonia toxicity comment leads me to have little confidence in their knowledge of reef tanks.

 

[SauceyReef]

I was - good thing I'm not a comic otherwise I'd be homeless.

Just as an aside what is your phosphate at and how does the display look?

My PO4 swings between .20ppm - .50ppm each month depending on some different factors. My tank quality is good and corals are happy, but there are a few reasons I want to lower it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My PO4 swings between .20ppm - .50ppm each month depending on some different factors. My tank quality is good and corals are happy, but there are a few reasons I want to lower it.

If you use it, be sure to let us know what happens.

 

[SauceyReef]

lol, ok.

I’m skeptical of the whole concept of dosing organisms such as bacteria or phytoplankton to reduce nutrients, at least as an ongoing thing, but some folks seem to claim it works for them (others say no).

As to a food that is high in carbohydrate, that will spur bacterial growth just like sugar, ethanol, etc, and that has the potential to lower nutrients.

Their ammonia toxicity comment leads me to have little confidence in their knowledge of reef tanks.

I can testify from experience that live phyto has helped long term with lowering my PO4. We had a pretty extensive thread on po4/no3 inversion and covered this a bit. You brought up a lot of really good information as with some others. I was recommended to try live phyto there. My tank and corals seem to react a lot better to it reducing PO4 than me using GFO (even if I go super slow lowering) thus why I hunt for organic ways to lower PO4.

I will certainly keep everyone updated on what benepets does to my PO4 and NO3 as well. Thank you for the replies.

 

[Krazie4Acans]

I've never heard that Benepets consumes PO4 only that it doesn't increase it. That has been my experience with it as well. I think i heard a few users say they saw reduction of PO4 but that seems to be an exception and not the rule from what I've read.

Randy, I've never seen you jump in on a thread like this with so many oppinions and suspicions but not specific data. I really like much of what you contribute but this seems off for you. This product has been around for quite a while in our hobby and for me, and many others, it has more than proven itself and it's results. Do you have experience specific to this product? Your replies just seem odd to me.

 

[DaJMasta]

I feed my tank on the regular with powdered food in addition to a few pellets and regular frozen, and for most of a year formerly and the last couple of months it's been Benereef instead of another brand. I haven't noticed any improvement in phosphate level (it's still plenty high, but it's not the end of the world and I'm using lanthanum to reduce it) when using it vs. when using something else, and my dose rate is probably higher than they recommend (one scoop per day, every day, in a ~45G system.)

I sort of doubt it's analogous to other carbon dosing mechanisms, though, I've got regular vodka dosing on the same tank and see a bloom of some bacteria and a drop in nitrates if I up my dosage for that which I don't observe when regularly feeding Benepets.


I like it as a food, but I would not consider it a phosphate reduction method.

 

[SauceyReef]

I've never heard that Benepets consumes PO4 only that it doesn't increase it. That has been my experience with it as well. I think i heard a few users say they saw reduction of PO4 but that seems to be an exception and not the rule from what I've read.

Randy, I've never seen you jump in on a thread like this with so many oppinions and suspicions but not specific data. I really like much of what you contribute but this seems off for you. This product has been around for quite a while in our hobby and for me, and many others, it has more than proven itself and it's results. Do you have experience specific to this product? Your replies just seem odd to me.

From User @C.Eymann

""Benepets, in my experience can actually decrease PO⁴ levels due to the probiotics/bacteria esp
lactobacillus, bacillus, saccharomyces. these strains are highly efficient at uptaking PO⁴, they effectively uptake orthophosphates into their cellular membranes which basically make themselves little phosphate rich "food packets" for corals, those familiar with Zeovit systems and aquaforest centered methods should be somewhat familiar to this, even back in the early 1980s a fella by the name of Peter Wilkens stressed how important bacteria is to coral nutrition, which is probably why he was one of the first reef aquarists to successfully keep and grow notoriously difficult NPS corals like dendronepthya and delicate non-photosyntheitic gorgonians by daily sand stirring to "kick up" detritus and more importantly bacteria, into the tanks water column.
When I first started using benepets on grow out tanks, I was pretty suprised to see it actually drop measurable phosphorus levels, and some systems that have a particular high demand or run lean on N/P, I will add additional foods like oyster feast, rotifeast and phyto when feeding benepets to ensure PO4 doesn't run a chance of bottoming out. Indeed, has yet to release nutrients into water column as its nutrients are still contained in its tissue/not in a decomposition state, ideally that "decomposition" and absorption happens in the stomach or -with coral- the gastric cavity of the animal for direct nutrition, therefore efficient uptake of nutients such as phosphate is directly utilized by the animals we are looking to feed instead of being liberated into the water column.""

Also, @Krazie4Acans this thread was never trying to purport anything just trying to find info.. It was literally started as questions that I think many of us want to find out. I think we're on to some good stuff here. Randy often finds the hot threads to join, and provides good info/opinions.

 

[Krazie4Acans]

I think @C.Eymann is on to some key things that this food does based off of the knowledge i have of the product and how it works, from using it, and conversations with Benepets at shows. What he says is in a bit of conflict with what Randy says about it.
Randy saying he doesn't have confidence in something usually holds some meaning for me but it doesn't sound like he has experience with this product like he does with so many other things in this hobby. I'm just trying gauge what I read. I think I've read almost every thread posted about this product and I don't remember anyone saying they don't have confidence in it so just wondering where that's coming from?

 

[SauceyReef]

I think @C.Eymann is on to some key things that this food does based off of the knowledge i have of the product and how it works, from using it, and conversations with Benepets at shows. What he says is in a bit of conflict with what Randy says about it.
Randy saying he doesn't have confidence in something usually holds some meaning for me but it doesn't sound like he has experience with this product like he does with so many other things in this hobby. I'm just trying gauge what I read. I think I've read almost every thread posted about this product and I don't remember anyone saying they don't have confidence in it so just wondering where that's coming from?

When you are very knowledgeable on science/chemistry it probably can get pretty cringe when someone says something you believe is entirely wrong. But on the other side of the coin this is literally the first slightly negative thing I have EVER heard about benepets, and have scoured forums for more information on them. I dont like speaking for someone, but I have posted on R2R about random products a lot, and @Randy Holmes-Farley often replies. I am guessing from past conversations he thinks there is a lot of products that claim to be quick fixes, but really are not necessarily the best solution. For example he got me on Calcium Nitrate dosing train instead of using quite a few different / more expensive bottled reef products that have extra stuff. Now I am straight to the source!

I agree though that @C.Eymann's seems to definitely be on to something. That post above is what got me to buy Benepets. I am curious of Randy's opinion on his reply.

 

[areefer01]

Randy, I've never seen you jump in on a thread like this with so many oppinions and suspicions but not specific data. I really like much of what you contribute but this seems off for you. This product has been around for quite a while in our hobby and for me, and many others, it has more than proven itself and it's results. Do you have experience specific to this product? Your replies just seem odd to me.

Not speaking for him but your assumption is incorrect to me. It is more about a claim without supporting data from the manufacture. Not unique to this product but a wider theme in our hobby.

Out of curiosity what data could you share and what is it proving?

 

[Krazie4Acans]

What claim did the manufacturer make that is not supported? I don't see anything about that in this thread.

I already shared that in my experience using the product it didn't raise PO4 and that it's what the company claims in every interaction I've had with them. It has been other hobbiests using it that claim it reduces their P04. What that proves to me is that more of the product is consumed resulting in less of it becoming waste to impact nutrients. It's corolation only but it's a repeatable result for me over years of using it which is enough to support the manufacturer claim for me.