Cyanobacteria Assistance

[devlinsreef]

Hello fellow reefers!

Yes, the dreaded thread of Cynaobacteria. I've done quite a bit of research before this, but I am looking for some other thoughts on what I should do to eradicate this issue and suggestions. I guess we can start by my current levels and what I am dosing.
Nitrate: 17.6
Phosphate 0.06
Mag: 1200
Calc: 460
Alk: 7.8

Currently working on getting my mag and alk levels higher, but just started adjusting those numbers over the past week with dosing.
Dosing: Nopox and Phyto. I just started doing weekly coral snow and biodigest. ( I just started all this dosing within the last two weeks)

The tank is a 150-gallon SC aquarium with two 2k gyers on the back and 4k gyers on the sides of the display. I run 2ks on the sine wave setting and the 4ks on the SPS reef setup. The tank has been up and running for over a year. I did however purchase this tank from someone and moved the tank about 4 months ago. I had an original cynao outbreak that went away and then for the last month or so I have been dealing with it once again. I am not sure if it is a lack of biodiversity within the system, not enough flow, or what is going on. Most of the cynao is bound up in the sand and occasionally I will get some buildup on my rocks. I have been trying my best to baste off my rocks and sand as much as possible. I have been also doing water changes to siphon out the cynao but I have not had much luck making a dent.

I have recently purchased Chemi-Clean but this is probably something I would want to stay away from a really get to the root cause of the issue so that it goes away for good. Any thoughts on what my next move should be on trying to beat the Cynao. It seems from what I have read and learned that the tank inbalance is allowing the Cynao to out compete other bacteria in the system. Am I in the process of waiting and taking the right steps. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, or success stories will help. Thanks for your time in advance!

 

[devlinsreef]

Hello fellow reefers!

Yes, the dreaded thread of Cynaobacteria. I've done quite a bit of research before this, but I am looking for some other thoughts on what I should do to eradicate this issue and suggestions. I guess we can start by my current levels and what I am dosing.
Nitrate: 17.6
Phosphate 0.06
Mag: 1200
Calc: 460
Alk: 7.8

Currently working on getting my mag and alk levels higher, but just started adjusting those numbers over the past week with dosing.
Dosing: Nopox and Phyto. I just started doing weekly coral snow and biodigest. ( I just started all this dosing within the last two weeks)

The tank is a 150-gallon SC aquarium with two 2k gyers on the back and 4k gyers on the sides of the display. I run 2ks on the sine wave setting and the 4ks on the SPS reef setup. The tank has been up and running for over a year. I did however purchase this tank from someone and moved the tank about 4 months ago. I had an original cynao outbreak that went away and then for the last month or so I have been dealing with it once again. I am not sure if it is a lack of biodiversity within the system, not enough flow, or what is going on. Most of the cynao is bound up in the sand and occasionally I will get some buildup on my rocks. I have been trying my best to baste off my rocks and sand as much as possible. I have been also doing water changes to siphon out the cynao but I have not had much luck making a dent.

I have recently purchased Chemi-Clean but this is probably something I would want to stay away from a really get to the root cause of the issue so that it goes away for good. Any thoughts on what my next move should be on trying to beat the Cynao. It seems from what I have read and learned that the tank inbalance is allowing the Cynao to out compete other bacteria in the system. Am I in the process of waiting and taking the right steps. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, or success stories will help. Thanks for your time in advance!

@Randy Holmes-Farley any thoughts, got your name from a fellow reefer area.

 

[Uncle99]

I’d stop dosing except phyto and bacteria.
The move sets your system back, your parameters look fine so they would not be contributing, hold fast your parameters, suck it out when seen, make no changes and wait to your system resets in a few months.

Chemi clean I’ve used without issue but run an airstone and skim.

 

[devlinsreef]

I’d stop dosing except phyto and bacteria.
The move sets your system back, your parameters look fine so they would not be contributing, hold fast your parameters, suck it out when seen, make no changes and wait to your system resets in a few months.

Chemi clean I’ve used without issue but run an airstone and skim.

Curious to know your reason to stop dosing all others. I guess i should have added it is a mixed reef so the dang for dosing is indeed there for SPS/LPS.

Yes, I have been trying to remain consistent on the siphon and blowing off rocks and sand as much as possible.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I don’t think cyano blooms are fully understood. They seem seasonal in my area, which suggests to me that outside environmental conditions play a role. I honestly just use the chemiclean as directed and move on.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I don't think anyone knows why cyano happens, seems to happen in many conditions, high nutrients, low nutrients, low flow, high flow, low light, high light, etc.... it is one of the oldest organisms on the planet, I guess it knows its way around.

I try to correct whatever I think is causing it, do my best to clean it manually, then chemi clean. Follow the instructions to the t and it works amazingly.

 

[Uncle99]

I’d stop dosing except phyto and bacteria.
The move sets your system back, your parameters look fine so they would not be contributing, hold fast your parameters, suck it out when seen, make no changes and wait to your system resets in a few months.

Chemi clean I’ve used without issue but run an airstone and skim.

Bad wording.

Your nutrient levels are good so just the no pox.
Dose everything you normally do, stability aids the development in terms of time.

Your parameters fine with your noted changes, I think you just need some time to restabilze after the move.

I moved mine after 2 years and it sulked a bit for 4 months.

I think your doing all the right things.

 

[Lavey29]

Have you tried @SunnyX recipe for extreme water clarity and cyano removal? Check his thread. It works great. I use it weekly.

 

[DirectCherry]

I've heard that Koumansetta rainfordi are known to eat cyano. Koumansetta hectori may eat it as well. They are both fairly small fish and should do well in an established aquarium provided you have some copepods and some algae in there. They sift the sand a little but don't make a mess like other sand sifters and I think they are good looking fish.
Adding one or two to your tank won't address the root cause of the cyano outbreak but may help keep it at bay or reduce the visual cyano on the sand and rocks.

Disclaimer: I haven't owned either before.

 

[GARRIGA]

Call me simple but I don't go deep into the woods unless absolutely needed. Here's what I did to dismantle my cyano although no guarantee it won't return and this was in addition to dinos which often made identification of actual cyano difficult but knowing I've had it past two years make me confident it existed.

Dosed ChaetoGro to help establish GHA to out compete dinos/Cyano, deep cleaning where I constantly stirred the gravel and used flocculant to clump everything then throw quilted batting floss out, replaced the rocks (test tanks so luckily no corals to fuss with) dosed MB7, did a three day blackout and added Pom Pom. Earlier I dosed NoPox with MB7 and oddly that did dissipate my dinos and cyano. Didn't make sense but it did.

Water became clearest it's been six plus months. All I believe initiated from upgrading my lights and increasing light as a means of fueling this mess. Now I'm experimenting with Pom Pom in a HOB with ChaetoMax 24/7 and tank blacked out again to remove the GHA. Dosing hydrogen peroxide 5ml in the morning and 5ml at night. Total volume approximately 16g. Started topping off with tap since it has silicates and it's a test tank. Removed the carbon and floss and will see how it goes. Stopped testing long ago because until lights were upgraded all I had was red turf algae introduced by CUC from a LFS that seems to always have it because I bought from them end of 2021 and end of 2022. No other additions since and no water change since end of 2021. Crazy how these organism just exist and sometimes rear their ugly heads. I'm sure they are still there until opportunity comes once again. Next build getting UV and we will see how that goes.

Lost all my margaritas, astreas and blue legged hermits. Best guess whatever dinos I had and I had both the type free swimming at night and stuck on rocks at night killed them. Fish and nassarius never missed a beat. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen again but I'll be dosing MB7, ChaetoGro and hydrogen peroxide daily and/or weekly. Hopefully to some extend macroalgae stays out of the display. Looking to add pods, too. I'm reading they help. Don't know. Don't hurt having them, either.

Hope this helps but no clue what fixed it therefore I'll just keep doing all of it. No sense making this more complicated then it is and none of this really adds undue stress for me other than losing my critters and those margaritas were spawning and reproducing. Can't wait reintroduce once GHA gone and tank film algae all that's needed to be groomed.

BTW, rather avoid chemical treatments since I fear losing my beneficial bacteria and as such going to monitor how hydrogen peroxide affects that. Dosage I don't believe excessive to the point that's jeopardized and it doesn't linger long once exposed to air and lights. Considered the often recommended remedies for both dinos and cyano but if I can solve it naturally then that's the path I will always go. Quick miracles don't often last and consequences can be detrimental.

 

[devlinsreef]

Bad wording.

Your nutrient levels are good so just the no pox.
Dose everything you normally do, stability aids the development in terms of time.

Your parameters fine with your noted changes, I think you just need some time to restabilze after the move.

I moved mine after 2 years and it sulked a bit for 4 months.

I think your doing all the right things.

Understood, no worries! I appreciate the insight and clarification. Yeah could be just the tank taking its way through the system being disturbed from the move. What is odd is that I had it, then it was gone, and now it is back. So could be just a wait and see and continue on the path and hopefully it goes away.

 

[devlinsreef]

I don’t think cyano blooms are fully understood. They seem seasonal in my area, which suggests to me that outside environmental conditions play a role. I honestly just use the chemiclean as directed and move on.

@Mr. Mojo Rising

Great insights as well. Yeah, I think that is the toughest thing when it comes to cynao. No one really knows the route cause, so it is hard to say do this, and you'll get this. But totally understand attempting to do the correct things first and then going with something like chemiclean to really do the dirty work.

 

[devlinsreef]

Have you tried @SunnyX recipe for extreme water clarity and cyano removal? Check his thread. It works great. I use it weekly.

I have not, but ill be sure to read up on it and see if I can implement the process to see if it makes an impact.

 

[devlinsreef]

I've heard that Koumansetta rainfordi are known to eat cyano. Koumansetta hectori may eat it as well. They are both fairly small fish and should do well in an established aquarium provided you have some copepods and some algae in there. They sift the sand a little but don't make a mess like other sand sifters and I think they are good looking fish.
Adding one or two to your tank won't address the root cause of the cyano outbreak but may help keep it at bay or reduce the visual cyano on the sand and rocks.

Disclaimer: I haven't owned either before.

Thank you, I plan on adding a bioata goby once they become available. Like you said, wont solve the problem but will help move the sand and has been known to eat some Cynao.

 

[devlinsreef]

Call me simple but I don't go deep into the woods unless absolutely needed. Here's what I did to dismantle my cyano although no guarantee it won't return and this was in addition to dinos which often made identification of actual cyano difficult but knowing I've had it past two years make me confident it existed.

Dosed ChaetoGro to help establish GHA to out compete dinos/Cyano, deep cleaning where I constantly stirred the gravel and used flocculant to clump everything then throw quilted batting floss out, replaced the rocks (test tanks so luckily no corals to fuss with) dosed MB7, did a three day blackout and added Pom Pom. Earlier I dosed NoPox with MB7 and oddly that did dissipate my dinos and cyano. Didn't make sense but it did.

Water became clearest it's been six plus months. All I believe initiated from upgrading my lights and increasing light as a means of fueling this mess. Now I'm experimenting with Pom Pom in a HOB with ChaetoMax 24/7 and tank blacked out again to remove the GHA. Dosing hydrogen peroxide 5ml in the morning and 5ml at night. Total volume approximately 16g. Started topping off with tap since it has silicates and it's a test tank. Removed the carbon and floss and will see how it goes. Stopped testing long ago because until lights were upgraded all I had was red turf algae introduced by CUC from a LFS that seems to always have it because I bought from them end of 2021 and end of 2022. No other additions since and no water change since end of 2021. Crazy how these organism just exist and sometimes rear their ugly heads. I'm sure they are still there until opportunity comes once again. Next build getting UV and we will see how that goes.

Lost all my margaritas, astreas and blue legged hermits. Best guess whatever dinos I had and I had both the type free swimming at night and stuck on rocks at night killed them. Fish and nassarius never missed a beat. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen again but I'll be dosing MB7, ChaetoGro and hydrogen peroxide daily and/or weekly. Hopefully to some extend macroalgae stays out of the display. Looking to add pods, too. I'm reading they help. Don't know. Don't hurt having them, either.

Hope this helps but no clue what fixed it therefore I'll just keep doing all of it. No sense making this more complicated then it is and none of this really adds undue stress for me other than losing my critters and those margaritas were spawning and reproducing. Can't wait reintroduce once GHA gone and tank film algae all that's needed to be groomed.

BTW, rather avoid chemical treatments since I fear losing my beneficial bacteria and as such going to monitor how hydrogen peroxide affects that. Dosage I don't believe excessive to the point that's jeopardized and it doesn't linger long once exposed to air and lights. Considered the often recommended remedies for both dinos and cyano but if I can solve it naturally then that's the path I will always go. Quick miracles don't often last and consequences can be detrimental.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I see where you are coming from and I am not really trying to take the chemical route either. I thought about a blackout but with the mixed reef I have not sure that would be something in the cards.

I have read some things on GHA and the benefits of cynao prevention etc. Ill have to do some more reading. Please continue to keep us posted in this thread of your process and story. Ill do some more digging on this as well!

 

[Mikeltee]

You are about to get dinos. Discontinue NoPox immediately. If you think cyno is bad keep using the NoPox.

 

[devlinsreef]

You are about to get dinos. Discontinue NoPox immediately. If you think cyno is bad keep using the NoPox.

What makes you say that I’m about to get Dino’s?

 

[Mikeltee]

What makes you say that I’m about to get Dino’s?

Because your Phospates are almost bottomed out. I fought dinos for 2 years and lost because I used NoPox coupled with GFO. Chemi clean will cure cyno in 2 days.

 

[Mikeltee]

I don’t think cyano blooms are fully understood. They seem seasonal in my area, which suggests to me that outside environmental conditions play a role. I honestly just use the chemiclean as directed and move on.

In my 14 years of reefing I had them 3 times. Each was cured with chemiclean. I wasn't doing anything different when the cyno showed up. I was a good 3 years in with ocean rock before the first time I had it. The final time I had it is right before the dinos showed up because I was using NoPox. My suggestion is to discontinue the NoPox immediately. Feed heavily and get the Phospates up to .1 and then dose chemiclean. Right now that cyno is outcompeting the dinos that wants to pop...

 

[devlinsreef]

In my 14 years of reefing I had them 3 times. Each was cured with chemiclean. I wasn't doing anything different when the cyno showed up. I was a good 3 years in with ocean rock before the first time I had it. The final time I had it is right before the dinos showed up because I was using NoPox. My suggestion is to discontinue the NoPox immediately. Feed heavily and get the Phospates up to .1 and then dose chemiclean. Right now that cyno is outcompeting the dinos that wants to pop...

I see what you’re saying. Thanks for the clarification. Wanted to get a better understanding of your thought process there and your experience. Okay so you’re suggesting to stop Nopox so my phosphates can climb. (I will say I only started this over the last week and my phosphates went form 0.03 to 0.06. Not saying that’s from Nopox. Nitrates went from 27 to 17 over this span.) Would you suggest feeding phyto as well, along with food. How about a water change, or let that go for now. What was your best way of keeping them away after using chemi clean