Diatom filter for treating external parasites?

[DanielJameS]

It will be totally worth it if you do. Just make sure that you go all in. I have watched much hard work be undone by folks not qt’ing everything wet.

I’m one of those people. All fish since last Fallow, QT’d. Currently brainstorming the second tank I’m going to set up for everything else, the realization it’s imperative is now abundantly clear.

 

[Paul B]

This thread is making me itchy.

 

[tastyfish]

I have no personal experience of using diatom filters, so can't comment on their effectiveness, however IMO, you need to identify the job that each tool does and its applicability.

Whether UV (which weakens/kills micro-organisms) or a filter which removes them, you are entirely reliant on the organisms passing through it. This has always been the issue.

If a fish beds down in a particular area, the likelyhood is that area will be a concentrated area of encysted parasites (whether cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium). Therefore, when released, the feeding stages are highly likely to come into direct contact with a host and never be circulated through the filter/UV.

So at best, I would suggest this is a tool to help reduce the numbers, but in no way an effective treatment for either cryptocaryon or amyloodinium.

Fallow and non-reef safe treatment (chloroquine, copper etc) remain the only truly effective treatments IME.

 

[nanomania]

I use These, and I smile to scare the parasites while I do it.

Thats u? Iv seen your photos when ever I search for diatom filters.. lol..

 

[DanielJameS]

Whether UV (which weakens/kills micro-organisms) or a filter which removes them, you are entirely reliant on the organisms passing through it. This has always been the issue.

If a fish beds down in a particular area, the likelyhood is that area will be a concentrated area of encysted parasites (whether cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium). Therefore, when released, the feeding stages are highly likely to come into direct contact with a host and never be circulated through the filter/UV.

Totally Agree. I’ve brainstormed ways to DIY inconspicuous UV feed piping down into the tank (maybe one in each corner and in the middle) extending down to just above the sandbed that pulls water directly from the tank from as close to the theoretical hatching points as possible, but then you have concerns with back siphons and water levels, floods, quickly mucked up quartz, copepod stripping etc. it seems to me that feeding a UV off a return line or anywhere in the sump for that matter would be the least efficient way of trying to catch free swimmers considering how far they would have to travel to enter the pump.

I am going to experiment with some of those ideas after my next Fallow period as a way to increase efficiency as a preventative, until then...

[emoji1365]#GoneFishin’ [emoji226][emoji225]

 

[DanielJameS]

@Humblefish in my quest to stuff more knowledge under my belt via experience I wanted to ask you this. All of my fish (or at least most) are infected with similar symptoms. My Kole Tang was the worst affected. I managed to trap her a couple days ago to do a FW dip. I did not see any larger, obvious flukes come off, but tonight, the fish looks the best it’s looked in weeks. Regained all its color, back to being active bold and hungry. Would this be more likely to point to velvet over ich? I was under the impression that FW dips do not provide relief from ich but from velvet they do. Is this inaccurate? The fish has CLEARLY been relieved and it’s blatantly obvious.

Just trying to further my knowledge in diagnosis, because it’s admittedly difficult.

 

[Humblefish]

@DanielJameS If no flukes came off, but the fish looks better following a FW dip then this highly suggests it was relieved of a "surface parasite". Velvet would be most likely, as a single 5 min FW dip will force 80-90% of the trophonts to drop off. Brook and/or Uronema should have visible physical symptoms.

 

[DanielJameS]

@DanielJameS If no flukes came off, but the fish looks better following a FW dip then this highly suggests it was relieved of a "surface parasite". Velvet would be most likely, as a single 5 min FW dip will force 80-90% of the trophonts to drop off. Brook and/or Uronema should have visible physical symptoms.

Copy that, well that just adds to the confusion then as what’s going on has been progressing for months as I’ve tried to manage. I’m sure it’s possible I’m dealing with some sort of combo. My clownfish have recently started showing symptoms of what “looks” like it could be brook, but countless other fish are scratching, flashing and twitching as well, and the clown slime coat makes it hard for me to tell. I have a little yellow clown goby who’s sort of my “indicator” and has been with me since last time this happened but what he’s showing sure looks like ich. I got my Swallowtail out tonight into quarantine and am about to dip her to see if there’s improvement as well. At that point it might be a reasonable conclusion that it’s velvet but fish have fought it off? That’s hard to believe [emoji15]

 

[Humblefish]

At that point it might be a reasonable conclusion that it’s velvet but fish have fought it off? That’s hard to believe [emoji15]

I've seen velvet being managed, but it's usually with the aid of a UV sterilizer, diatom filter and/or herbal remedy of some kind. Like our own, a fish's natural immune system varies greatly from fish to fish, and is influenced by a number of factors.

 

[DanielJameS]

I've seen velvet being managed, but it's usually with the aid of a UV sterilizer, diatom filter and/or herbal remedy of some kind. Like our own, a fish's natural immune system varies greatly from fish to fish, and is influenced by a number of factors.

Very interesting, I’ve implemented and been experimenting with both of those things the last month and a half or so...

 

[Humblefish]

Very interesting, I’ve implemented and been experimenting with both of those things the last month and a half or so...

That would probably explain why you haven't seen full blown velvet yet. I know it's tempting to keep the band-aid going, but sooner or later it usually comes back to bite you in the ...

I would feel more confident if you were just managing ich. But velvet is such a dangerous pathogen.

 

[DanielJameS]

That would probably explain why you haven't seen full blown velvet yet. I know it's tempting to keep the band-aid going, but sooner or later it usually comes back to bite you in the ...

I would feel more confident if you were just managing ich. But velvet is such a dangerous pathogen.

Well that’s the thing, I thought I WAS managing ich. That is purely the reason I decided to implement those things. I’m in the position where yanking everything again is even more tedious than the last time, but my recent more hasty decision to start pulling fish was the observation of much more severe symptoms on more than just one or two fish. My Tang has been flashing off of corals for months, but still eating like a pig and generally active. When I started seeing signs on some of the more “hardy” fish, ESPECIALLY my clowns, the sirens started going off as they for the most part have been almost bulletproof. The Tang also started to decline way more rapidly, color loss, constantly hovering over my cleaner shrimps, then the Angel got in line, it started escalating quickly. I’m sure its possible I could have both. The Ich could have been in for months and fish were dealing with it, and maybe velvet made it in on a coral or something.

I also noticed after moving from a160’s to Radions the last week and a half, although my corals seemed to double their PE it seemed like it got worse. Maybe that light fed Dino theory IS very valid.

I’ll say this, if the Diatom filter did stave off Velvet this long, I’ll most certainly run it intermittently during the Fallow period, possibly in QT as well. I’m getting tired of these little [emoji90][emoji90]

 

[Humblefish]

Just to add...

I bought a Marineland Magnum Polishing Internal Canister Filter and some pool grade Diatomaceous Earth to use in it. The perfect opportunity to try it out came because I have this one 40 breeder that just won't clear ever since I set it up. (Probably because I didn't rinse the sand very well. )

Here is a pic of the tank @ 9PM (it has looked like this for weeks):

Following the directions provided by @reefwiser in his instructional video (on page 16), I used 6 tablespoons of DE and less than 1 hour later the tank was crystal clear:

Absolutely amazing! I'm buying more of these for my QT room when cloudy water/bacterial blooms occur. Just gotta figure out what impact DE has on medications. Will it remove them from the water? @Christoph @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[JMM744]

Diatomaceous earth filters are a great tool. Had one years ago when I was running a collection of fresh water tanks. I would run one on each tank for a day and then after doing water changes and it cleaned the water crystal clear. I had forgotten about that till reading this thread. Time to find one and put it to use. My thought is to run one on qt while fish are first introduced and getting thier legs under them and learning to eat what I offer. Once meds are introduced I would shut it off unless it’s determined it does not reduce/ eliminate meds. Another 5hought, try running on an empty tank and add meds and see the results. I have to thing it will absorb copper , just how much I don’t know.
Great read so far guys.
Thanks, Jim

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Absolutely amazing! I'm buying more of these for my QT room when cloudy water/bacterial blooms occur. Just gotta figure out what impact DE has on medications. Will it remove them from the water? @Christoph @Randy Holmes-Farley

Silica is not a strong binder of most organic chemicals, but it will bind to some extent since it is a high surface area material. Anything you have knowledge of binding to silica sand will bind to the media.

It also has the potential to release silicate, so if you get diatoms afterward, that may be why (not that this is necessarily a problem, it might be useful).

 

[Brew12]

I bought a Marineland Magnum Polishing Internal Canister Filter and some pool grade Diatomaceous Earth to use in it.

I found that this thing works amazing even without the Diatomic Earth. As it clogs, it filters finer and finer particles ending up with a similar impact.

 

[Fudsey]

Just to add...

I bought a Marineland Magnum Polishing Internal Canister Filter and some pool grade Diatomaceous Earth to use in it.]

I have been using one of these with and without DE (on a 90 & a 40B) and it clears the water extremely fast. It did help with my ick outbreak but in the end, didn't stop it from killing my fish.

 

[Humblefish]

Silica is not a strong binder of most organic chemicals, but it will bind to some extent since it is a high surface area material. Anything you have knowledge of binding to silica sand will bind to the media.

Thanks for chiming in, Randy. I suppose since silica based sand will absorb meds to an extent, so will DE.

I found that this thing works amazing even without the Diatomic Earth. As it clogs, it filters finer and finer particles ending up with a similar impact.

Have you tried the other filter that comes with it? For running carbon?

I have been using one of these with and without DE (on a 90 & a 40B) and it clears the water extremely fast. It did help with my ick outbreak but in the end, didn't stop it from killing my fish.

It probably filters out some of the free swimmers, but is unlikely to get them all before at least some find a fish host to latch onto. For parasite management purposes, I suppose you’d need to run DE indefinitely (like a UV) and hope it would always be enough to keep free swimmer populations in check.

 

[Brew12]

Have you tried the other filter that comes with it? For running carbon?

I have not, since I use a reactor for GAC. Not sure why it wouldn't work well.

 

[reefwiser]

It would depend on the particle size of the chemicals used to treat the fish.