DON'T add LR to your DT without letting it sit

[tutmatt3]

I wouldn't hold off on treatment, ich can get out of hand rather quickly...especially after a stressful capture and transfer to QT. I waited too long to start copper in my QT (I was still trying to capture the last two fish) and lost my regal angel because of it. Nearly lost my powder brown too, but he's hanging in there.

If you only have one QT to work with...you can still do the "clean QT" after 30 days, it's just a bit trickier and will take a few hours of work.

Once you are finished with copper, put fish in a temp holding container... a Rubbermaid with a powerhead and heater would work. Tear down the QT completely and clean with vinegar and water, as thoroughly as possible, and soak/scrub all equipment in the same. Then rinse and dry thoroughly. A hairdryer can help speed things along, but you need the tank to be bone-dry. Then refill with new, clean saltwater.

Make sure you monitor ammonia closely. Re-seeding with bottled bacteria and a fresh sponge would help, and as long as you are certain there are no traces of copper remaining you can use prime or another ammonia reducer as needed.

Then, you can continue to observe for the remainder of your fallow period

Thank you! I kept trying to figure out the best approach for this, but I like this method listed.

I'm sure I can get away with using the same coppered water & heater in a bucket for all the fishes while I take care of cleaning the rest. Start it in the morning, and hope its a warm enough day to let it dry in the sun. Hair dryer is wise as well - I like it.
Maybe bring out the leaf blower! haha

How long would be good to soak all equipment in a 50/50 mix of hot water/vinegar?

your thread is a valuable reference for people who study sandbed maintenance in the reef tank

a rinsed bed either requires help to renew or it doesn't...and if it does, those inclusions are potential vectors duly noted. as I read it, tank transfer method is about avoiding those locations of import. I don't keep fish so I wouldn't know about ich we just like the sandbed rinsing part and outcome. people either lose or continue entire systems when delving into sandbeds, well done on the transfer and rinse.

Thank you. Well for me, the ich 99% came from the pieces of live rock added from the LFS - well after knowing my tank was ICH free. Of course there is room for error in analysis, but I took avoid cross contaminating very serious

 

[ngoodermuth]

How long would be good to soak all equipment in a 50/50 mix of hot water/vinegar?

I'm not sure there's a specific timeframe, as long as practical for you. It's more important to try to give a good scrub to as many hard surfaces as possible to remove encysted tomonts, and then dry COMPLETELY.

 

[tutmatt3]

I'm not sure there's a specific timeframe, as long as practical for you. It's more important to try to give a good scrub to as many hard surfaces as possible to remove encysted tomonts, and then dry COMPLETELY.

Copy copy that.

I'm sure things should be ok for the lil critters a day or even 2 in some 5 gallon buckets w/ flow going

I'll just keep things dark & I mean.. if fish can get shipped in a tiny little bag overnight and be ok, I'm sure a temp controlled 5gallon container with flow will be sufficient while things are extra drying.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[tutmatt3]

Hitting you guys w/ 1 more question. Since both tangs have it pretty bad right now - should I do any sort of 'dip' before going from DT>Hospital?
I read freshwater isn't proven to do anything, so didn't want to stress them out more than they already have been.

I have a variety of meds on hand (Malachite green, quick cure (formalin), and a few others). Wasn't sure if one was worth using for a short dip to help rid some of these guys.

Angelfish was quite irritated today too, and was the only one swimming by the powerheads flow. Maybe velvet it is? Hard to know, but either way, tomorrow levels of copper slowly rise once they are all in!

 

[ngoodermuth]

If you suspect velvet, I would do a 5-minute fw dip followed by 90-minute acriflavine bath. Malachite green is also an antiseptic, so if you can't source acriflavine that might help.

Read here, post #2 on emergency treatment:

Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Velvet-(Amyloodinium-ocellatum).217570/

 

[Gablami]

Hey there, just wanted to add my 2 cents since I just went through this with 20 fish. While breaking down the reef and catching the fish can be a royal pain, the main concern is going to be ammonia toxicity in your treatment tank or your ultimate holding tank while your tank goes fallow. I saw earlier that you don't really have a large holding tank (maybe you do now). I'm assuming it's not cycled yet.

You mentioned that you have done ttm, so you have at least the equipment to do small volume ttm.

My advice is to consider two things:

1. Start cycling your holding tank now. Get some really porous media (live rock or marine pure or siporax), soak it in dr Tims or biospira, and do a fishless cycle with ammonia. Since your fish aren't all dead, I presume this is more likely ich. And ich is a slow killer. Might be better to give your holding tank a head start. You said you have 7 fish with some tangs. I think a 40breeder would be a good size, but you might be able to get by with 30g.

2. You don't need to treat all your fish at once. You've got some tangs, and if your copper tank or TTM tanks are small, treat the most susceptible fish first, in batches. Yes, this extends your fallow period, but it protects your fish from ammonia toxicity.

Have a good amount of salt water mixed up at all times and an ammonia badge.

Good luck. No need to rush. I have a friend who tried to treat all his fish and they all died from ammonia poisoning in a previously cycled tank that wasn't big enough for the huge increased bioload. Just some thoughts from someone who's been there.

 

[tutmatt3]

Thank you both very much for the input. Really appreciate all insight!
Lets get ready for 2.5 months of boredom + "oh god oh god oh god!" lol

 

[tutmatt3]

One last question! This will be my first time using a small portion of sand in my quarantine. I have two tupperware's which I cut in half and placed some sand in for the wrasse, and i also figured increased content that had beneficial bacteria with them.

After using the proper concentration of copper to get the tank up to par, how should I go about seeing if the sand will consume any of the copper, and lower my levels? Sorry it's just my first time using sand and I figure a lot of you professionals have used it before

Of course I will be doing frequent testing, but I didn't know if sand could consume some of the copper and leech it out later

 

[Humblefish]

After using the proper concentration of copper to get the tank up to par, how should I go about seeing if the sand will consume any of the copper, and lower my levels? Sorry it's just my first time using sand and I figure a lot of you professionals have used it before

Of course I will be doing frequent testing, but I didn't know if sand could consume some of the copper and leech it out later

Daily testing will let you know if your Cu level is remaining stable. In reality, copper absorption/leaching is more of a concern with rock than sand.

 

[tutmatt3]

Daily testing will let you know if your Cu level is remaining stable. In reality, copper absorption/leaching is more of a concern with rock than sand.

Understood. The sand I am using is 'Hawaiian black", which kind of is more of rock than sand haha, but I will definitely do daily testing to see what happens.
--------------
Right now - everyone is in a 20g long, since that's all I was able to get my hands on ASAP without breaking bank @ the pet store. I double dosed Dr Tims 1&Only, and used plenty of sponge from the DT - whatever could fit in the HOB, as well as some big chunks under PCV for bonus pieces. ~13x4x2 piece that was in my sumps baffle for some time (shoutout to my skimmer for producing microbubbles, resulting in this sponge entering my sump, resulting in having some great bacteria seeded for this QT lol), and of course the 2x tuba-wears of sand

I do understand 7 small fish is pushing limits bio-load wise for a 20g. - but I will keep a very close eye on the tank over, especially over the next few days.
• If indeed the tank does not have any ammonia issues (2x badges installed), and as long as there is no aggression (which of course can be resolved w/ some egg-crate), should I technically be okay?

When I QT'd them the first time, I did 3x fish @ a time in the 10g, and all was okay with not a trace of ammonia detected by tests/badges. Since that time, all fish are relativity similar sizes with exception of the 2x tangs, who grew maybe .5-.75" each in length.
Also will make sure not to feed them until their bellies are going to explode, but keep them looking healthy, as well as split up feedings to much less, but increased # of feeding sessions - to allow bacteria to do it's thing w/o having to handle ALL the food at once.

Setting up another 10gallon for a portion of the load can be an option, but of course more cost, more time/hassle, and the biggest of them - trying to convince the family w/o them flipping & wanting to give me the boot lol.
Was already extremely difficult to convince them to let me set up this 20 (when they already wanted me to ditch my DT...), so having to explain why I need 1x more small tank is NOT going to settle well.

------------

Looking forward to your thoughts on if I really am setting myself up for failure, or if with a watchful eye & knowledge/preparation of the risk involved that I may just be okay.
I do have 20gallons of saltwater ready at any given moment, and 10g RODI in case I need to deal with an emergecy

 

[Humblefish]

If indeed the tank does not have any ammonia issues (2x badges installed), and as long as there is no aggression (which of course can be resolved w/ some egg-crate), should I technically be okay?

Yes, ammonia issues and fish aggression are the two biggest worries in QT. If you can alleviate those two things, all that's left to really deal with is whether or not the fish can handle the medications you use.

 

[tutmatt3]

Yes, ammonia issues and fish aggression are the two biggest worries in QT. If you can alleviate those two things, all that's left to really deal with is whether or not the fish can handle the medications you use.

Thanks! I'll just have to keep a super close eye then. Thankfully they were all friendly in the DT, and always swam together. Sure guys, I'll give you 75g, but you can all hurdle like it's football & stay close. Sometimes both tangs will do the dance, but nothing concerning. Thankfully egg-crate is on hand & tangs can't swim thru

And ammonia wise, I do think the media I put in, as well as the Tims bacteria should be able to keep up. Ontop of that, I have additional bottled bacteria in-case something happens during a WC, or when I do 100% clean tank to take copper out.
That + 2x a week 30% WC, I should be able to get the upperhand on this.

All these champs have been through copper once, so hopefully they've gotten even stronger nutrition wise, and round 2 will not be as intense on them.
All fish already doing TREMENDOUSLY better! Literally been in QT for ~20 hours, and only overnight in 1/3 copper concentration (ramping up), there's 80-90% less visible ich on them. Yay

Thanks again guys.. with special thanks to @Humblefish , @melypr1985 , @ngoodermuth for always being there for me 100 questions!

 

[tutmatt3]

People like updates, yeah?

So far, everything is A-okay!

Was in my room a few days ago and heard a loud clicking noise, then it stopped. Went to check it out, and the HOB (topfin) filter just stopped...
Went to go plug it and unplug it, and after a few attempts it started smoking, lol. Lucky to be home & have a lite day, so I took it as an opportunity to buy a new filter which would have been new & I wouldn't need to clean it from any ich cysts as I would have with this.

Was able to use my heater / powerhead that I mix salt with, since I new those would be clean of any potential ich cysts, and got everyone transferred over.

We're now 1x week into the clean QT, with brand new live sand & plenty of sponges / dr tims to help strengthen that bacteria population! Also fed pretty light those first few days to give bacteria a chance to get used to the situation.

Now.... just need to wait until Dec 8th for the main transfer back to DT after fallow period, but as of now no signs of issues w/ these little guys! Thanks again for the support people!