Gilroy 425g Build Thread (All Apex, all the time)

[Terence]

Half of them were super heavy duty ones, and the others were a little less so. Check the photos early in this thread and you can probably spot them. They were not mine.

We had no issue with them coming loose at all. Not a single one. Every person had at least one hand on a suction cup and one under the tank just in case.

 

[wpeterson]

Subscribing to the epic build thread here, great reading.

 

[BetURWrasse]

Thats a good idea zip tying that ALD sensor to the plumbing, I have an extra one around here somewhere, ill have to do the same.

 

[jl283467]

I have found my ald sensor extremely sensitive I have all mine sitting on dry paper towel they couldn't sit right on my cement floor. I'm very interested to see how they do on the pipe

 

[Terence]

Any sweating whatsoever would set it off. However, in the house this is really no issue, and any water at all that comes down that pipe I want to know about. No matter how minute. Unsealed concrete floors can be trouble as they hold moisture. They are designed to be super sensitive.

 

[jl283467]

They really are but like you said that's a good thing

 

[Terence]

Well the next piece of gear was installed yesterday and is being tuned in right now. I set up the Deltec Calcium Reactor. It really was pretty easy to set up - but then I have a lot of calcium reactor experience. I can see how this might be VERY daunting for someone new to this piece of tech.

The Deltec reactor uses a different method and media than nearly every other one on the market. It uses a proprietary mixed media (includes calcium and magnesium) and it is the consistency of large grains of sand. In a traditional reactor, recirculating water passes by the media and the low-pH water "melts" the media as it passes. This can lead to issues in some reactors as the water can start to channel in the media and this makes the amount of surface area contact greatly diminished. The Deltec reactor actually tumbles the media by using a reverse flow. Water enters the reactor through a filter so that no foreign matter goes into the pump. CO2 comes in through a check valve. The water pickup for the effluent is lower than the pump intake so overgassed/unused CO2 automatically recycles.

I used an AquaMaxx CO2 Solenoid/Regulator. It was a pretty good deal and I wanted to stay away from the Milwaukee as those have been a real PITA for me in the past.

The manifold I made two weeks ago worked perfect for the feed for now. I added an inline valve on the 1/4" to better regulate the flow and there is another valve on the reactor itself. I have it flowing about 20ml/min right now but that will need to go up. I tested the effluent and it was about 21dKh (I want it at around 30) so I turned down the pH set point a bit. 6.6 now.

Next phase for this will be to connect it to a DŌS and perfectly regulate the flow. Many have the wrong impression that you need a peristaltic pump to be running 24/7 continuous duty. This is not true. I can run it for one minute out of every three and it will be just fine. The volume coming out of the reactor is only about 150-200ml in a minute or twos time. The reactor holds gallons. And the pH differential is only 1.5 between tank and reactor. The pH rise will be minimal. Can't wait to prove this to everyone.

Today is test day too. Good thing I connected up the reactor - kH was down to 6.0. Cal is 400. Mg is 1340. NO3 is 3 and PO4 is .05. All going good. I added some Sodium Carbonate to bring up the kH to 8.5-9.0 and then fine tune the reactor to take it from here!

 

[revhtree]

Nice reactor!

 

[Terence]

So, here is something cool and something if you have an Apex you should be doing already. That is, using the data collected to better understand relationships of things happening in your aquarium.

The chart below is very "young", and there are no conclusions yet to be gleaned from it, but it shows how you can use your Apex charting to align related things and see if there may be some possible interaction (but remember correlation is not causation). In the example below, the data points selected show me an insight into my Calcium reactor operation. When I get the DŌS regulating the reactor flow, I could add that as well.

From this you could see, for instance, the relationship of tank pH to Alk, Ca Reactor pH set point to Alk, Ca Reactor pH set point to tank pH, etc.

Another one that is super important to look at is the comparison of your tank temp and then your heater/fan/chiller operations. If you put your heater or chiller on an Energy Bar by itself, you could also see the net power-utilization impact of selecting a tank temperature of 2 degrees cooler or one degree warmer.

The further along I get on the tank, I hope to share more and more stuff like this.

Something to think about...

 

[wpeterson]

So, here is something cool and something if you have an Apex you should be doing already. That is, using the data collected to better understand relationships of things happening in your aquarium.

When did you guys launch support for graphing lab measurements in this view? That's a cool new feature. I've been impressed at the continual improvement of Fusion over time.

 

[Terence]

We showed first showed it at MACNA 2014 and then it went into the Apex Fusion sometime at the end of the year I believe.

 

[skydancer]

Terence, you may want to add a sponge around the PVC pipe and sit the ald sensor on the sponge for better detection.

 

[skydancer]

Terence, excellent choice on the Deltec CA reactor. I've had mine for 10 years and I couldn't be happier. As you said, the media and method of tumbling are very different than anything else on the market. Only reactor I know of that can put out 38-40 dkh effluent. You will need the DOS to supply it. I have a liter meter supplying mine. I started with 25 liters per day and I'm now at 38 liters per day due to increased tank demand. Let me know if you have questions on dialing it in.
P.s. To get the efflucent up to 38-40 dkh, I run the ph in the reactor between 6.2 to 6.3.

 

[Terence]

Terence, you may want to add a sponge around the PVC pipe and sit the ald sensor on the sponge for better detection.

This is an excellent idea. The only downside I can see is the time to alert since small drip leaks would require saturating the sponge before it would trigger. Great thinking!

Terence, excellent choice on the Deltec CA reactor. I've had mine for 10 years and I couldn't be happier. As you said, the media and method of tumbling are very different than anything else on the market. Only reactor I know of that can put out 38-40 dkh effluent. You will need the DOS to supply it. I have a liter meter supplying mine. I started with 25 liters per day and I'm now at 38 liters per day due to increased tank demand. Let me know if you have questions on dialing it in.
P.s. To get the efflucent up to 38-40 dkh, I run the ph in the reactor between 6.2 to 6.3.

Right now there is really nothing in the tank so my demand is super low. For now I can have the inconsistent dribble and be OK. I also have the pH setting higher than optimal because of that. dKH on the effluent was first 20 then 26 after I lowered pH set point again (you can see it on the graph). Once I have a bunch of coral in there the pH set point will drop to 6.3 and I will use the DOS to regulate the reactor flow based on demand.

 

[Terence]

BTW, I had a good laugh reading an article/post recently where the author stated that there was really no good way to measure the high dKH of the calcium reactor effluent. That is not true. While it is true that you would give up accuracy, simply using half as much sample and doubling the results works just fine. Alternatively you could just use more titrant and calculate with the formula instead of the chart that only goes to 1ml. Last, you could dilute with pure RODI to make a 1/2 or 1/4 concentration do the test, then multiply.

 

[skydancer]

BTW, I had a good laugh reading an article/post recently where the author stated that there was really no good way to measure the high dKH of the calcium reactor effluent. That is not true. While it is true that you would give up accuracy, simply using half as much sample and doubling the results works just fine. Alternatively you could just use more titrant and calculate with the formula instead of the chart that only goes to 1ml. Last, you could dilute with pure RODI to make a 1/2 or 1/4 concentration do the test, then multiply.

I use the API KH test. It costs $5. Each drop is 1 dkh. It takes 35 to 40 drops for the effluent to change color. I put 5ml of effluent in the vial and then drop the test KH fluid, 1 drop at a time until the effluent changes color. The bottle is large enough to do at least 50 or more tests. Very economical and accurate.

 

[cope413]

Been following along. Great build thus far.

Just curious, do you have a ballpark for the cost ratio of equipment vs. stock for a build like this? Not asking for dollar amount, just an idea of what % of your budget you expect to spend on the hardware vs. the livestock.

We're looking to buy a new house soon, and a tank and fish room are in the plans. Budgeting for a project like this is new territory for me. Never had more than 100g in a system before.

 

[Terence]

I don't mind giving you numbers. I think far too many people underestimate the cost of a project like this - to build, as well as support, and energy costs.

I would ballpark a build like this would cost the average DIY person (like me) about $20-$30K (likely $50-$75K to have this done for you) when all is said and done. That includes tank, stand, equipment, modifications to a space to make a fish room (in my case the "crawl space" beneath my house, everything. I think the monthly maintenance costs for salt, additives, test kits, etc. to be in the $100-$150 range. The energy costs can vary greatly depending on many factors. My estimate is this will cost me between $125-$225/month in energy. I do not have a complete handle on that yet because I have to see how it goes through the year and what changes are necessary to minimize consumption.

All of the above does not include my time or the time of people who helped (will help) me.

In terms of livestock, that is highly subjective and changes all the time depending on the market. I would guess though that given my plans I would expect to have about $20-30K of livestock value in the tank at any one time once the tank is mature.

In the past, I (like other hobbyists) have used my system to produce some livestock (corals) for sale. I did not do it as a business really. Just each quarter I would sell off some stuff I had put in the frag system as a way to offset the ongoing costs and allow me to really enjoy the hobby.

 

[cope413]

Thanks. I had estimated $25k in "hardware" based on what I've seen in the thread (not including time, of course).

Am I correct in my thinking that there isn't a significant difference in initial build costs between a 200-250g display and a 400-500g display?
Obviously monthly costs would be different, as would stocking costs, but do you think your build would have been pretty close to the same budget with a smaller DT?

 

[IvanW]

Hey Terrence could you not just have said (like we all do) that you got a great deal on the equipment,or it was on sale and at least halve the amount.Thank goodness my wife does not read this stuff.I like to think that she has no idea....yeah right