Help! Is my sand bed dying?

[Wiz]

Do you have them now? Can you take a close up pic? The grain size makes a big difference in the dsb working. So that would suggest that a solid patchwork of holes would either be awesome or horrable. No in between. Do you think they would get clogged?

 

[john.m.cole3]

The block with love rock and the spheres is in my refugium section of my sump

 

[john.m.cole3]

the flow going through there is quite low and my skimmer is rated 7x my tank size (528 gal on a 72 gal tank), so I'm not sure how many solids get past it yet.

 

[Wiz]

I'm gonna guess it will get clogged. And rinsing it will destroy the fauna. So I don't think it will function like a sandbed. I'm interrested to know though.

 

[Wiz]

Those spheres look neat. What are they?

 

[john.m.cole3]

marine pure for both block and spheres

 

[Wiz]

Huh. Cool media. It may work in its own way. But I don't think bu gs and worms will inhabit it without clogging it. And I'm not sure how the gas left over from the nitrate will get removed. Looks better as a basic media. But maybe I'm missin something

 

[john.m.cole3]

Your comments about the micro fauna creating tunnels in a DSB is what made me wonder if my setup might act in the same way. If those little guys can tunnel through more compact sand, wouldn't they be able to keep these pre-made tunnels free and clear? I don't ever plan on rinsing my block or spheres. @brandon429 and I were talking about these and were unsure if denitrifying bacteria would be able to populate in them as well.

 

[Wiz]

The bacteria would defanitly get in. And the fauna might do well. Its defanitly possable. Do you have a thread I can follow to find out how it does?

 

[brandon429]

If it helps any for comparison, the siporax reactors are along the same lines and do have 20 yr history I bet, at least it's no fly by night approach it's solid to attempt. IMO the online consensus is they do work, I'm on board. What if a little chunk of that stuff is detritus excluding o2 isolating ideal... and it's some nitrate scrubber that aside from a little pore cleaning (still no known way to escape it in reefing I've seen) might be the lowest work denitrator avail (perhaps at an efficiency loss but made up for by simple install)
What if it just needs a light biofilm coating/typical discolorations to both import bacteria and begin to reduce oxygen in pores etc

 

[Wiz]

Does it work like a dsb @Brandon

 

[john.m.cole3]

my thread is full of disease and cyano at the moment. running fallow for the time being. but things will turn around here soon.
My build thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-first-upgrade-72-bowfront.240558/

 

[Wiz]

If you havnt gone through it then you don't know. Lol I've had some rough times. Happy to follow.

 

[themadman]

I have just been reading through this thread and would really like opinions or recommendations from the posters here on my options. I have a new tank set up that is almost a month old. @brandon429 helped me with some cycling questions on a prior thread I started. I was originally planning to do a DSB as it is intended. I did my homework on it and understand the basics of not disturbing and no sand sifting critters at all. I installed a 4" sand bed constructed of mostly oolite sand as well as some Fiji pink on top for a little bit bigger grain size for blowing etc but still within DSB guidelines. My tank has had water in it since April 2. I have not disturbed the sand bed at all. I ordered DSB activator from indo pacific sea farms and also some worms from inland aquatics. I've got nassarius snails just added yesterday. Some worms, pods, mini brittle stars have been in a little over 2 weeks. So far I have seen no tunneling or signs of life inside the sand bed. Now after reading this thread not sure DSB is the way I should have gone. However I have all of my rock work already constructed obviously on top of this 4 inch sand. I really don't even want to think about having to rebuild the live rock and do so while working around the critters that are in there. So what are my best options? Should I leave the sand not disturbed and go forward with my DSB plan? If I go this route is it normal that I don't see any tunneling yet after 4 weeks of being installed? Or is there a way to maintain 4 inches of sand in a manner of disturbing it like a shallow sand bed that is safe to do and not ridiculously maintenance work heavy? Or should I just suck it up and try to remove some of the sand even though I dread the thought?

 

[klp]

The blocks are supposed to remove nitrates. I have not seen any tests.

 

[john.m.cole3]

i was once in your boat w/ a 4" bed. It was impossible for me not to disturb it. I would siphon the top inch or 2 in small sections every WC but my nitrates kept creeping upwards of 50 after 7 months of being cycled. I SLOWLY removed it in a 4" wide section every week until it was gone. I moved all my rocks to one side until the opposite side was bare bottom, then moved the rocks of to the other side to get the remaining sand. This took me 2 months do complete. I then ran bare bottom for about 4 months, but it was difficult to make look clean even though in actuality my nitrates began to drop. I upgraded to a new tank and having a bare bottom system made the transfer much easier. On the new build I put my rocks down first and rinsed my live sand very well prior to adding it in my new system. I have about a 1" sand bed now that I siphon every week and it stays nice and white. I'm attempting to use some bio media in my sump for denitrification purposes. But this is just what I did... I think if enough information is presented to you, it will allow you to make up your mind easier. Have a nice weekend!

 

[Wiz]

It is perfectly normal not to see tunneling yet. I did not see it for a couple months. And even then only one type of worm enters the oolitic sand. The rest tend to stay in the top inch of sand. I love my dsb but they are not for everyone. There is no vacuuming a dsb. So if you dont trust it, i would remove it. Not just two inchs though. If your not going deep it would be better to remove almost all of it. Leave 1/2"-1". Enough to set a plug in only. Anymore is unnecasary and harder to maintain. I also would not have a dsb in my display. There are to many fish and inverts i like that would bother it.
Although i trust my dsb completly if done wrong it can crash your entire tank. So i understand the worry. You will need more equipment to control nutrients without it though.

I have just been reading through this thread and would really like opinions or recommendations from the posters here on my options. I have a new tank set up that is almost a month old. @brandon429 helped me with some cycling questions on a prior thread I started. I was originally planning to do a DSB as it is intended. I did my homework on it and understand the basics of not disturbing and no sand sifting critters at all. I installed a 4" sand bed constructed of mostly oolite sand as well as some Fiji pink on top for a little bit bigger grain size for blowing etc but still within DSB guidelines. My tank has had water in it since April 2. I have not disturbed the sand bed at all. I ordered DSB activator from indo pacific sea farms and also some worms from inland aquatics. I've got nassarius snails just added yesterday. Some worms, pods, mini brittle stars have been in a little over 2 weeks. So far I have seen no tunneling or signs of life inside the sand bed. Now after reading this thread not sure DSB is the way I should have gone. However I have all of my rock work already constructed obviously on top of this 4 inch sand. I really don't even want to think about having to rebuild the live rock and do so while working around the critters that are in there. So what are my best options? Should I leave the sand not disturbed and go forward with my DSB plan? If I go this route is it normal that I don't see any tunneling yet after 4 weeks of being installed? Or is there a way to maintain 4 inches of sand in a manner of disturbing it like a shallow sand bed that is safe to do and not ridiculously maintenance work heavy? Or should I just suck it up and try to remove some of the sand even though I dread the thought?

 

[themadman]

It is perfectly normal not to see tunneling yet. I did not see it for a couple months. And even then only one type of worm enters the oolitic sand. The rest tend to stay in the top inch of sand. I love my dsb but they are not for everyone. There is no vacuuming a dsb. So if you dont trust it, i would remove it. Not just two inchs though. If your not going deep it would be better to remove almost all of it. Leave 1/2"-1". Enough to set a plug in only. Anymore is unnecasary and harder to maintain. I also would not have a dsb in my display. There are to many fish and inverts i like that would bother it.
Although i trust my dsb completly if done wrong it can crash your entire tank. So i understand the worry. You will need more equipment to control nutrients without it though.

So your DSB is not in your display? And it's not that I don't trust it. I believe I have set it up correctly so far according to the research I have done including reading Ron Shimek's book on DSB's. It's more a question of reading many comments and seeing so few DSB's in DT's I am trying to decide if I should proceed or not? I figure my tank is new enough now is the time to do it if I'm going to. But I really hate the thought of messing with my rock work because I have it just how I want it. My tank is a 60 cube and I'm running an icecap k2 protein skimmer rated for up to 120 as well as a BRS mini media reactor with carbon and GFO. Also have a sump with fuge going with some acro and an emperor aquatics 25 watt UV sterilizer so I think my system should be good to go as far as nutrients regardless which way I go? Thanks for the replies!

 

[themadman]

i was once in your boat w/ a 4" bed. It was impossible for me not to disturb it. I would siphon the top inch or 2 in small sections every WC but my nitrates kept creeping upwards of 50 after 7 months of being cycled. I SLOWLY removed it in a 4" wide section every week until it was gone. I moved all my rocks to one side until the opposite side was bare bottom, then moved the rocks of to the other side to get the remaining sand. This took me 2 months do complete. I then ran bare bottom for about 4 months, but it was difficult to make look clean even though in actuality my nitrates began to drop. I upgraded to a new tank and having a bare bottom system made the transfer much easier. On the new build I put my rocks down first and rinsed my live sand very well prior to adding it in my new system. I have about a 1" sand bed now that I siphon every week and it stays nice and white. I'm attempting to use some bio media in my sump for denitrification purposes. But this is just what I did... I think if enough information is presented to you, it will allow you to make up your mind easier. Have a nice weekend!

Thank you for your feedback! Definitely a big decision if I decide to remove some sand. Just figured it would be smart for me to decide sooner rather than later since my tank hasn't been up for quite a month yet and I've only had a fish in it for a week today. Can't be too much built up in it. Just not sure what right move is yet. I was sold on the DSB benefits but after reading more comments and seeing how few if any of the beautiful reefs I see posted on here have DSB's I don't know if I made a mistake or not? Now sitting here wondering if I do decide to remove some sand if I could do it slow enough on each side to lower the rocks without messing them up. Lol. Have a good weekend as well!!

 

[themadman]

Also apologies to the OP for butting into your thread with my questions! I'm also new to R2R and hope that is ok. I have found and been reading through this thread with good info about DSB's.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/pros-vs-cons-deep-sand-bed-vs-shallow-sand-bed.87740/page-4

Now leaning towards keeping the sand and moving forward