How well do HOB Filters work on Large Tanks ???

[J-West]

I'm thinking of putting two AquaClear 110s on an undrilled 90 gallon, along with a Reef Octopus HOB-90 Protein Skimmer.
Is there any reason this set-up would not work ? If you are using HOB Filters on a salt-water tank larger than 75 gallons, please post pictures of your set-up, along with your experience - good or bad - doing it this way.
I know that most people will tell me to drill it and get a sump, but I don't want to use a sump if I don't have to.

 

[Diesel]

IMO, you will be in for weekly large water changes or just have a few fish in there like 3 or 4.
Lots of rock to process the biological process

 

[J-West]

Nobody is using HOB Filters on large tanks ?

 

[Paul B]

I have no sump but see no need for a HOB filter as there is nothing to filter. Everything I put into the tank is bio degradable so the bacteria eat what the fish don't. My tank is very old and no problems yet.

 

[J-West]

I have no sump but see no need for a HOB filter as there is nothing to filter. Everything I put into the tank is bio degradable so the bacteria eat what the fish don't. My tank is very old and no problems yet.

So if you had to set up a new, undrilled 90 gallon tank today, how would you set it up ?
I don't want to use a Sump, but I feel that I need some type of filtration method. I am also thinking of doing a HOB Refugium (like an AquaFuge2) to grow and maintain Copepods to feed my tank inhabitants. Thanks for your help @Paul B !

 

[Diesel]

So if you had to set up a new, undrilled 90 gallon tank today, how would you set it up ?
I don't want to use a Sump, but I feel that I need some type of filtration method. I am also thinking of doing a HOB Refugium (like an AquaFuge2) to grow and maintain Copepods to feed my tank inhabitants. Thanks for your help @Paul B !

Can you explain why you don't want to use a sump?

Paul's tank is VERY old and well established over the last 45 years, to me it's a science project more or less.
The time Paul did setup his tank there were no sumps we have today but the new trend was undergravel filters, they work fine and I'm positive they still do even you run them reverse

 

[J-West]

Can you explain why you don't want to use a sump?

#1)
Because of the horror stories I've heard about people coming home to 90 gallons of water all over their floors because a SUMP has over-flowed and flooded.

#2)
Because anytime you drill a tank, you introduce the risk of leaks and coming home to water all over your floors.

 

[Slim_Okrug]

#1 If you design sump so it can take all sea when return pump stops then there is no way it will over fload anything

#2 If tank is drilled by people who know what are they doing then also there is no way it will leak.

 

[40B Knasty]

Reef Octopus BH2000 and 2xFLUVAL C4 is your best bet. There so is much room in the carbon filter area to swap out and put something better in. Like C-nodes or purigin. I have both, but one Fluval C4 and a BH1000. It is on a 40B with 6 fish, corals, and inverts. Does a great job and I am sure you would be perfectly fine with 2 C4s if you are looking to have 2 filters. Just doubling the size of my tank. So it makes sense to me. BH2000 has a way better pump.

 

[Syntax1235]

Drilled tanks only leak due to bulkhead issues. Typically the manufacturing burrs on the bulkhead flange can prevent a water tight seal, sand them down and you are good to go.

A properly designed system will never cause the sump to overflow.

 

[40B Knasty]

@J-West did some leg work for ya. The C4 has a GPH of 264. The 110 has 500. Big difference. So if you are looking for a heavier flow. Go with 110. If you are looking for a good flow, but better filtration, C4. I don't know how tall your tank is. Mine is 16" high and pushes the water down to the bottom just fine. Even with it being used as a 6 stage vs 5 as sold. Threw a purigin bag in and fluval 50 ammonia remover bag in the carbon chamber area. Didn't slow it down at all. If you are looking for a better flow. Leave that up to the powerhead and go with the almost $20 cheaper better filtration. Just a way around it. Trying achieve that gph you are looking for and HOB filter idea. Plus the skimmer will add more gph.
I am with you on the sumps as a no go for my system. I don't want a nother tank to clean. Just pop the sponge out. Rinse it in tank water. Done.
Pop the canister off the BH. Rinse in sink. Done.
Change purigin every 6 months.

 

[J-West]

@J-West did some leg work for ya. The C4 has a GPH of 264. The 110 has 500. Big difference. So if you are looking for a heavier flow. Go with 110. If you are looking for a good flow, but better filtration, C4. I don't know how tall your tank is. Mine is 16" high and pushes the water down to the bottom just fine. Even with it being used as a 6 stage vs 5 as sold. Threw a purigin bag in and fluval 50 ammonia remover bag in the carbon chamber area. Didn't slow it down at all. If you are looking for a better flow. Leave that up to the powerhead and go with the almost $20 cheaper better filtration. Just a way around it. Trying achieve that gph you are looking for and HOB filter idea. Plus the skimmer will add more gph.
I am with you on the sumps as a no go for my system. I don't want a nother tank to clean. Just pop the sponge out. Rinse it in tank water. Done.
Pop the canister off the BH. Rinse in sink. Done.
Change purigin every 6 months.

How big is your tank ? And is this your current set-up ? I'm just worried about whether or not this is even possible on a 90 gallon/125 gallon tank using AquaClear 110s ?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

The danger of using AQ style Hob's on a large tank is its very easy to over stock. A canister is likely a better Idea for mechanical filtration.
But its a pretty easy set up. Hob skimmer and The largest Hob mech you can get. Pack the HOB filter to pull particulates(the instructions on an AQ is for fresh water BTW). If you dont want a skimmer two hob's is fine but you'll want to really consider how you get O2 into a water volume that Large.
The next challenge will be nutrient export. Via hob reactors or hob fuge. If bacterial wast isnt removed consistently it becomes a nitrate factory. In a smaller Hob tank its easier to avoid by cleaning and water chances.

 

[leptang]

Had a large HOB refugium on my 75 gal tank. Wasn't the best idea, made the glass flex. Keep it small.

 

[Techie_]

I used a HOB on my tank for about a year in the beginning, I absolutely hated it, you'll spend a lot in media, have to keep up on water changes, and in my opinion the worst thing is not having a filter that can actually benefit your tank. You'd be better off running no sump no HOB and hoping for the best. With a HOB you'll only have mechanical filtration and minimal surface area for biological filtration.

I'd have the tank drilled and make a DIY sump, it's a fun project, like @Diesel has said before, this hobby isn't for everyone; nothing happens fast, or cheap. Diesel is a nice guy and an awesome resource, don't hate on him, he's just being helpful.

EDIT: Also, noisy. If you're going to have HOB everything, your tank will get ugly quick.

 

[cb684]

I don't think you need a sump and I also don't think you need a hang on the back filter. Actually, I think the hang on the back filter will cause more problems than help. There are different ways you can do nutrient export, including growing macro algae in your tank, doing water changes and using a HOB skimmer.
But, I really believe that later on, you will regret not adding a sump. It really makes things more practical for reactors, dosing, use of socks, more options of (and better) skimmers, and heaters.

 

[Vaughn17]

Freshwater and saltwater do the same thing to a hardwood floor, LOL. In my case, I didn't want the added weight of a sump on my upstairs floor (PN = earthquake zone).

J-West, I've run three tanks for four years with HOB (Aqueon) filters (largest is a 40 breeder). They provide O2 and do collect a lot of gunk, but they are not as efficient as a protein skimmer. While weekly water changes were necessary in the beginning, after my tanks matured and my sps coral really started growing I was able to add more fish and do fewer H2O changes. Now, I could add even more fish; however, I've elected to dose NO3 and PO4 instead. I recently set up a 180 in my daylight basement (with a concrete floor) that has a sump and a skimmer, as I'd like to have some larger fish. I will still be using an HOB on my qt tank. I think an HOB would work on a larger tank. I sure learned a lot using HOBs and do recommend them, as long as a person understands and respects an HOB system's limitations. Here's the 180 cycling.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I used a HOB on my tank for about a year in the beginning, I absolutely hated it, you'll spend a lot in media, have to keep up on water changes, and in my opinion the worst thing is not having a filter that can actually benefit your tank. You'd be better off running no sump no HOB and hoping for the best. With a HOB you'll only have mechanical filtration and minimal surface area for biological filtration.

I'd have the tank drilled and make a DIY sump, it's a fun project, like @Diesel has said before, this hobby isn't for everyone; nothing happens fast, or cheap. Diesel is a nice guy and an awesome resource, don't hate on him, he's just being helpful.

EDIT: Also, noisy. If you're going to have HOB everything, your tank will get ugly quick.

I disagree. You may have hated it, but it does work, in my house quite well thank you. Good mechanical filtration is actually pretty good as the water doesn't have to rot before its exported via skimming. Surface area of bio filter is the live rock no?

Done correctly you don't need a skimmer hob or anything really but live rock and flo no?

To each their own and thier own way.

 

[recess62]

One more issue to consider is a sump adds additional water volume and hence can aid in tank stability

As previously stated there are a myriad of ways to accomplish you goal. What works for one may not be practical for another

I installed a sump in my 9o build. I enjoyed the challenge of designing a system that would limit a flood possibility. Is it 100% fool proof? No; tanks fail for many reasons and cause flooding. Do a YouTube search for aquarium failures and you may change your mind about using a sump. The videos you will find are very humbling

Happy reefing

 

[sc50964]

The biggest advantage of having a sump is for the convenience of maintenance, as that's where all the filtration is. It's also the best way to maximize filtration since there is more room to fit larger skimmer, refugium, chemical media, and filter socks. To keep water as clean and free of large particles in a large tank, having a sump is the best way to go. It's also a good place to put your heater and regulate water temp as most if not all heat producing equipments are in one place. There is more limitation to what HOB equipment can do and you may have a more difficult time oxygenate water just with HOB equipment since there isn't as much surface area. This may have been mentioned before. HOB also will result in more salt creep over the top of the tank. It will get messy and harder to maintain.