"List" of Zoanthids that have/don't have palytoxins...?
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The Dangers (and Myths) of Zoa Toxicity – Part 1
The oceans are full of creatures capable of killing us; one of the more surprising marine menaces is a group of popular aquarium corals known variably as “but
reefs.com
encrustingacro
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From what I know, palytoxin production is limited to only a few species of Palythoa, so all Zoanthus are fine.
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Not by a longshot...
IMHO all paly's and zoas should be treated as deadly and goggles, gloves and proper precautions should be taken.
Palys, zoas, and other things (surprisingly, it can be a bit complicated what does and doesn't fit this category) may all contain palytoxin, but as long as your not ingesting it/something that contains it, getting it in cuts (or your eyes), or (most commonly) aerosolizing it, it shouldn't hurt you at all.
If you want some in depth reading (that I think covers most of the topic) on palytoxin, see my posts in the threads below (some of threads have multiple posts from me):
Can the toxins from zoas actually kill you?
My family is worried about me getting zoas because there toxic, can the toxins actually kill you?www.reef2reef.com
Newbie Palytoxin Concerns
So a little background info to start…we set up a 55 gallon tank with the intent of having a fish only tank. At the end of November we purchased 2 small ($10.00) coral frags. Unfortunately we did not do research and blindly purchased what turned out to be a Zoa and a Paly I believe. Fast...EMERGENCY - Anyone ever haddermal palytoxin poisoning on here.
To some ot up had a patch of gha on a huge zoa rock in tank was using forceps to pull it off while in the tank. Think i may have disturbed them a bit but not much and yes these are the big uglys ones that everyone says have it. Well wasnt wearing gloves and did it at probably 1 am monday...
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My basic premise here is simple.
Very few people (or scientists for that matter) have the knowledge or skill to identify or classify what looks like zoanthids or palythoa from one another and/or which are more or less toxic. Given that we know extremely dangerous and we can't reliably tell which those are (or are not) then they all need to be treated with the same care.
Very few people (or scientists for that matter) have the knowledge or skill to identify or classify what looks like zoanthids or palythoa from one another and/or which are more or less toxic. Given that we know extremely dangerous and we can't reliably tell which those are (or are not) then they all need to be treated with the same care.
encrustingacro
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The Dangers (and Myths) of Zoa Toxicity – Part 1
The oceans are full of creatures capable of killing us; one of the more surprising marine menaces is a group of popular aquarium corals known variably as “but
reefs.com
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That article is 10 years old and a vague "feel good" content piece. "Yeah its there and we can define it, but don't worry about it".The Dangers (and Myths) of Zoa Toxicity – Part 1
The oceans are full of creatures capable of killing us; one of the more surprising marine menaces is a group of popular aquarium corals known variably as “but
Let me repeat myself for clarity, so as to keep you from whistling past the graveyard any longer:
A - You, me and 99.999999% of the participants in this hobby are not capable or qualified to identify or recognize what specific paly or zoa is toxic and/or to what level. Even with the chart from the article and a pile of photos in your hands.
B - Numerous Palythoa and Zoanthid specimens in this hobby contain extremely dangerous amounts of palytoxin.
C - There are NUMEROUS first hand reports of extremely serious illness that have resulted in loss of eyesight, ICU stays and near death for dozens of people in this hobby. There are first hand reports of entire families being hospitalized, dead pets (dogs, cats, a parrot, etc.) that have been exposed to the toxin directly or airborne as result of handling said corals.
D - There are numerous fill tank wipe out stories associated with said corals being disturbed in the aquarium.
E - For every story you can search and read on the internet, there are likely dozens or hundreds of UNREPORTED or UNDIAGNOSED illnesses that are a direct result of palytoxin reef aquarium related incidents. This is a statistical surety.
My advice (take it or leave it) is to take every reasonable precaution when handling said coral, because you DON'T KNOW for sure how toxic it is.
encrustingacro
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Yes I can
littlebigreef
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You mean that you think you can
You own safety is your own prerogative, so go for it.
Happy Reefing
Much to my amusement @encrustingacro has been educating forum members on the difference between zoas and palys for sometime now. This includes scientific names and morphology. If you work with these enough the difference is pretty obvious.
As to the rest of your post:
B and C - Yes, people occasionally do dumb things like boil live rock with true palys growing on them, or try to dissolve palys with mutratic acid so they can reuse the plug. In the usual course of aquarium keeping zoas pose almost no threat to any body and true palys, when handled properly, are the same. Treat them with respect and people will be fine. If a rock is encrusted, give it away and get a new rock, don't try and tear them all off with your teeth.
D - People can and will attribute tank wipe outs to anything. If someone is concerned run some chemi-pure but unless there's science behind it its simply an anecdote.
E - conjecture but ok, sure.
The point I'm getting at here is enough with the fear mongering. I'm sick of it. Yes, emphasis PPP and due diligence but leave it at that. I've cut tens of thousands of z's and p's over the last 2 decades with no adverse affects. Have I gotten it in the eye despite safety glasses? Yes -and now I use a face shield especially when using a saw. Have I gotten it in cuts? Yes, stop immediately, flush the wound and let it heal. I still have both eyes and all 10 fingers.
As to @salty150's original question: no, this doesn't exist. However, Grandis and true palys require greater discretion than your regular zoa.
Spare time
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It's unknown which have them and to what degree. A study conducted random sample of zoas and palys from a fish store and again it was quite random as to which had it and how strong it was.
littlebigreef
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Link to the article or paper? I wouldn't mind having a read.
Pod_01
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As an aside , I found sure way to tell the difference between Palys vs. Zoa. When you have a tank disaster all Zoas melt, Palys can take the beating….
My experience, not scientifically proven but so far works 100% of the time for me….
I do like Zoas but so far I always end up with Palys….
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The difference in what is obvious? Which have enough palytoxin to be dangerous and which don't? That is absolute nonsense, given that most who study these animals for a living can't answer those questions (identification, let alone individual specimen toxicity levels).
Your are grossly misinformed. It does not take a "dumb act" to be seriously injured or killed by palytoxin. That is the entire point. It takes nothing more than a minor mishap, a squirt in the eye, an open cut, a squirt in the mouth, merely breathing the air contaminated by a release.
There are throngs of you who are blissfully ignorant of the real danger and go around advising people to not to worry and "just be careful". You want to "educate" people, then tell them that they should treat all paly and zoa with the same precaution. Make sure they understand the worst case risks and let them decide for themselves. Why is that so controversial to some of you?
You are avoiding the truth, but I am not sure why? Numerous well respected members of this hobby have shared first hand verifiable accounts, many of them with sickness and/or hospitalization or pet deaths to coincide with their tank deaths.
Why would you call informing people for their own safety fear mongering?
I can't help you there.
littlebigreef
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Actually you could… you could calm down and quit trying to scare and intimidate folks but you know what. You seem happy up there on your soap box - so be my guest.
Lebowski_
Valuable Member
I’d be interested to see where you heard this, because Sprung basically says the opposite (look up his MACNA talks, I believe it was 2018).
In my opinion all Zoa/Paly variations should be treated as if they were all equally as dangerous. It does not take much prep to put on gloves and eye glasses when fragging.
SpyC
Well-Known Member
They might be referencing this one.
Palytoxin Found in Palythoa sp. Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) Sold in the Home Aquarium Trade
Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) are colonial anemones that contain one of the deadliest toxins ever discovered, palytoxin (LD[50] in mice 300 ng/kg), but it is generally believed that highly toxic species are not sold in the home aquarium trade. We ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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