Major problems with overflow

[ryleary]

Your overflow is not getting a full siphon so you are trapping air on the way down that creates the bubbles and foam in the sump.
The basement sump creates a different issue since you now have a much longer vertical drop.
What size is your display tank, sump and return pump and how is the return plumbed? Sounds more like the return is not large enough to keep up with the siphon on the overflow so you are getting trapped air down to the sump.

Do you have any photos or a description of your standpipe arrangement inside the oveflow box? Is there something on the 90 degree elbow inside the box such as a Stockman standpipe so you suck water with a measured amount of air versus surface skimming with unlimited air?

The overflow box has a little cap over the 90 so the water has to flow down the sides if that makes sense. It was the 700gph from glass holes.

It starts at 1.5 and then reduces to 1" a few inches below the 90. I didn't want to drill a 1 3/4 hole through the plate in a main support wall of my house therefore the reduction to 1"

 

[ryleary]

Also the 90 off the drain bulk head should be a tee fitting with a riser pipe and end cap on top. This gives you more area to trim your siphon hose.

The kit from glass holes is just a 90 pointed down with a air tube coming out of the top.

 

[AZDesertRat]

R. Durso's 180g - Ken Stockman Standpipe

Study this standpipe design. This is in a HOB overflow box and can be made any length or height, I use it in my 100G bottom drilled overflow box with great success. The design allows you to adjust the air intake so you get a full siphon and eliminate the air bubbles if you have alarge enough return pump which you have not said what you use. There are not many return pumps that stand up to 10+/- feet of head with much GPH left over.

 

[Zacco]

Anyway you can get that 1" drain bigger. Maybe to at least 1/14" (1 1/2" to 1 1/4" reducer) i know you are concerned about drillling a big hole in your base plate inside the wall but remember the upright studs carry the weight load and not the base plate. Plumbers cut these out all the time in 2x4 walls in new houses to run 2 inch vent stacks.

 

[ryleary]

R. Durso's 180g - Ken Stockman Standpipe

Study this standpipe design. This is in a HOB overflow box and can be made any length or height, I use it in my 100G bottom drilled overflow box with great success. The design allows you to adjust the air intake so you get a full siphon and eliminate the air bubbles if you have alarge enough return pump which you have not said what you use. There are not many return pumps that stand up to 10+/- feet of head with much GPH left over.

Sorry I have a mag 12, and at 10' it's 540gph, only 2 45s on it

 

[ryleary]

Anyway you can get that 1" drain bigger. Maybe to at least 1/14" (1 1/2" to 1 1/4" reducer) i know you are concerned about drillling a big hole in your base plate inside the wall but remember the upright studs carry the weight load and not the base plate. Plumbers cut these out all the time in 2x4 walls in new houses to run 2 inch vent stacks.

So you think it's the reducer causing all the bubbles and not the drop? I read that one guy made a longer run using some 45s to make the drain drop not so direct.

 

[Zacco]

First thing I would do is get rid of that check valve. It serves no purpose. The swing check valve is probably just flapping erratically since it does not have enough pressure to remain fully open. Therefore causing water agitation. It's a process of elimination.

 

[ryleary]

First thing I would do is get rid of that check valve. It serves no purpose. The swing check valve is probably just flapping erratically since it does not have enough pressure to remain fully open. There for causing water agitation. It's a process of elimination.

Check valve is gone, I removed this morn. All I have is a reducer and a union.

 

[ryleary]

It's running perfectly quiet right now, just the drain and return are cut down by ~50%

 

[Zacco]

Ya. That's a pretty big pipe fall you got there. You could try some 45's to slow the rate of fall. The only way I would suggest a gate valve on the drain pipe is if you can enlarge that drain pipe to 1 1/4" to straight 1 1/2". (prevent the likely hood of a clog). I would also suggest a emergency back up drain (Wide Open) @ 1" if you go that route.

 

[Zacco]

It's running perfectly quiet right now, just the drain and return are cut down by ~50%

Great news! Any way you can add a back up drain for safety measures? Not to scare you but that 1" pipe is really getting narrow at 50% open.

 

[ryleary]

Great news! Any way you can add a back up drain for safety measures? Not to scare you but that 1" pipe is really getting narrow at 50% open.

Good point, that's what scares me, I'm definitely going to add a back up

 

[kschweer]

Try drilling a small hole in the cap you have comin off the overflow to let some air in. It should help. I too would be worried with any restriction in my drain line without an emergency drain.

 

[ryleary]

Try drilling a small hole in the cap you have comin off the overflow to let some air in. It should help. I too would be worried with any restriction in my drain line without an emergency drain.

Already have that, came with the kit. Doesn't do anything to the sound or bubbles when the ball valve is full open.

 

[Zacco]

Good point, that's what scares me, I'm definitely going to add a back up

Try to do the tee method on the back up pipe at the bulk head. If the pipe was ever to get obstructed all you have to do is unscrew the top cap and push a plumbers snake or the like down the pipe without having to remove all the unions. Also I can clean the insides of my pipes when they get cruddy over time. Unscrew the cap and scrub the inside's with nylon baby bottle brush.

 

[Fin]

I think what you have done by reducing the size of the drain to 1" is to change a Glass-Holes overflow with a 1½"drain pipe, meant for 700 gph, to their 1" drain model with a maximum of 300gph (by their own specifications).

Also, I do not usually have the end of my drain under water. My reasoning is that you do not give any trapped air in the drain pipe an opportunity to escape, except to bubble up from under the surface. I try to let at least some of the air escape before it goes under water. I find that I have less gurgling. Of course, I have never dealt with a 10 foot drop. I usually cut the end of my return pipe at a 45° angle and submerge the angle about half way below the water line. I think this allows a space for air to escape before being forced under water.

Another observation that I thought I would mention... I noticed that it looks like you have the neck of the filter sock up above the sump rim. Those socks (especially a single sock) can stop up very quickly and then they will overflow. From the picture anyway, it looks like the water will have a pretty good opportunity to flow over the side of your sump when the sock clogs.

Also, have you turned off the power to see how much water drains back into your sump? It looks to be almost full in the picture and you don't look to have a lot of space for extra water.

 

[ryleary]

I think what you have done by reducing the size of the drain to 1" is to change a Glass-Holes overflow with a 1½"drain pipe, meant for 700 gph, to their 1" drain model with a maximum of 300gph (by their own specifications).

Also, I do not usually have the end of my drain under water. My reasoning is that you do not give any trapped air in the drain pipe an opportunity to escape, except to bubble up from under the surface. I try to let at least some of the air escape before it goes under water. I find that I have less gurgling. Of course, I have never dealt with a 10 foot drop. I usually cut the end of my return pipe at a 45° angle and submerge the angle about half way below the water line. I think this allows a space for air to escape before being forced under water.

Another observation that I thought I would mention... I noticed that it looks like you have the neck of the filter sock up above the sump rim. Those socks (especially a single sock) can stop up very quickly and then they will overflow. From the picture anyway, it looks like the water will have a pretty good opportunity to flow over the side of your sump when the sock clogs.

Also, have you turned off the power to see how much water drains back into your sump? It looks to be almost full in the picture and you don't look to have a lot of space for extra water.

All very good points. Giving the air a chance to escape would make a lot of sense. I really don't feel like draining the tank to move it and then redoing the plumbing that took me a day. If the 45 degree cut method works and I can open the valve all the way, I would be happy.

I will definitely lower the sock and check the water level when the pump goes off in the morning. We're probably going to lose power on Tuesday here, so it would be a good idea.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Fin]

You are welcome. I hope it helps you. That is why it is always a good idea to post pictures. Like I said though, I have never dealt with a 10' drop on a drain line. I am at sea level - no basements here.

 

[ryleary]

You are welcome. I hope it helps you. That is why it is always a good idea to post pictures. Like I said though, I have never dealt with a 10' drop on a drain line. I am at sea level - no basements here.

So after speaking with the guys at glass holes, I think I'm going to have to drain my tank, move it, rip out the plumbing and plumb it 1.5" all the way... Better now than when I have fish I guess.

 

[Fin]

Sounds like a plan. Better to get it right in the beginning, than to deal with it down the road when it won't be as easy. Good luck with weathering the upcoming winter storm!