Need help with diagnosis

[eeyore357]

I suppose it could still be flukes? Second round of Prazipro after the WC?

 

[Humblefish]

Today the clowns are scratching and the yellow tang has red blotches. I held off on the waterchange yesterday because today I'm past the 72hr mark and ammonia was unreadable (still is). I've read that this is usually an internal bacterial infection and can sometimes be cured with WCs. This is so frustrating. I'm not sure how to proceed other than my planned 5gal WC today. It seems like it's neverending problem after problem. This is definitely not how I imagined my first tank to go.

I suppose it could still be flukes? Second round of Prazipro after the WC?

Sorry, I know it can be frustrating. Treatment can go smoothly if you're dealing with just one disease. But if a fish has multiple ailments and especially if a "secondary" bacterial infection sets in, that's when things can get dicey.

I would definitely do a second round of prazi, 5-7 days after completing the first one.

Post pics of your YT if you can. It may not be a bacterial disease. Scroll down here until you see "acclimation stress": Marine Fish Diseases and Parasites

 

[eeyore357]

Start the second round 5-7 after completion of the first or redose (after recommended WC) at the 5-7 day mark? The YT will have none of the camera. I've kept my salinity at 1.024 throughout QT and they've been in QT since Jan 17. The spots look identical to the internal bacterial infection in the link you provided.

 

[Humblefish]

Start the second round 5-7 after completion of the first or redose (after recommended WC) at the 5-7 day mark? The YT will have none of the camera. I've kept my salinity at 1.024 throughout QT and they've been in QT since Jan 17. The spots look identical to the internal bacterial infection in the link you provided.

My bad... 5-7 days after you first started treatment. So, if you dose Prazipro on a Monday... Saturday-Monday would be your 5-7 day window to begin the second round. Just be sure you do at least a 20-25% WC before beginning the second round.

If the spots on the YT persist, you may be needing to treat with antibiotics next. :squigglemouth: But don't mix antibiotics with prazi. Wait at least 72 hrs after the second round and do a large WC/run carbon before beginning antibiotic treatment. More info below.

Antibiotics: Treats bacterial infections, which are oftentimes “secondary†to preexisting parasitic infestations.

How To Treat - Follow the directions on the label of whatever product you are using. Always use a broad spectrum antibiotic medication i.e. one that treatsboth gram-positive and gram-negative bacterial diseases (very important). Examples of this include Furan-2, Kanamycin aka Seachem Kanaplex,Nitrofuracin Green Powder, Triple Sulfa Powder or a combination of using both Erythromycin & Minocycline. The latter can be accomplished (albeit expensively) by using freshwater Maracyn 1 & 2 and then doubling the dosage for saltwater use. When battling a particularly nasty bacterial infection, combining Furan-2, Kanaplex and metronidazole (ex. Seachem Metronidazole) can be very effective (and safe). Props to “hedgedrew†for enlightening me of this.

Normally you have to do 4 doses to complete a full course of treatment. The instructions may say to dose every 24 hours, and perform water changes at certain intervals. In my experience, you often have to do 2 full courses of treatment (or 8 doses total) before a fish will show signs of improvement (antibiotics are notoriously slow acting with fish). If a fish shows no signs of improvement after the second full course, then it’s time to try a completely different medication. Just like with humans, sometimes a certain fish will respond better to a different antibiotic. You can run activated carbon at any time when you wish to end treatment.

Pros - One of the few medications that can safely be mixed with others. You can use antibiotics in conjunction with just about everything.

Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression, depletes the water of oxygen (so provide additional gas exchange).

 

[eeyore357]

Are there any vitamin solutions you would recommend? Maybe I can soak the seaweed in some to help him fight it off himself.

 

[Humblefish]

Are there any vitamin solutions you would recommend? Maybe I can soak the seaweed in some to help him fight it off himself.

Selcon, Zoecon, Vita-chem. Or alternatively, Omega 3 or 6 fish oil. Works wonders for Paul B.

 

[eeyore357]

Added some carbon late Monday and took it out this morning. Then added round 2 of Prazipro this morning. The yellow tang looks 1000 times better, only one small red spot left. The clowns didn't freak out when I added the Prazipro today so everything seems to be headed in the right direction. I have some Selcon ordered and will be giving them some when it gets here.

 

[eeyore357]

Is it okay to dose Prazipro 3 times 5-7 days apart? I can't seem to find a definite answer to the life cycle of flukes and if Prazipro kills eggs.

 

[Paul B]

Selcon, Zoecon, Vita-chem. Or alternatively, Omega 3 or 6 fish oil. Works wonders for @Paul B.

Yes but you are supposed to give the fish oil before they get sick to prevent disease. I doubt it will cure anything but it can't hurt, I take it myself and I don't have any flukes. Just flounders

 

[eeyore357]

They will be getting vitamins from now on, just to help keep them healthy. As you said, can't hurt.

 

[Humblefish]

Is it okay to dose Prazipro 3 times 5-7 days apart? I can't seem to find a definite answer to the life cycle of flukes and if Prazipro kills eggs.

Yes, that is fine. The second dose usually gets the “next generation†of worms before they can lay eggs of their own, but there's no harm in dosing a third time if you want to be sure.

 

[eeyore357]

This morning the yellow tang is looking good other than one light pink spot left. One clown is scratching. The other is breathing rapidly, white stringy poop, and I noticed only one gill is working. Everyone is still eating.

 

[Humblefish]

This morning the yellow tang is looking good other than one light pink spot left. One clown is scratching. The other is breathing rapidly, white stringy poop, and I noticed only one gill is working. Everyone is still eating.

The white stringy poop is a symptom of intestinal worms. Sometimes prazi takes care of this, but if it hasn't by now I'd assume you are dealing with a prazi resistant strain. Treating with metronidazole would be my next move in your shoes; Seachem Metroplex is one option but there are also meds which contain metro (see below.)

Metronidazole: Treats internal parasites (worms), Brooklynella; possibly Uronema marinum.

How To Treat - Metro can be found as a stand-alone drug (ex. Metro+, Seachem Metro) or incorporated into a multi-purpose medication (ex. API General Cure). It is best to soak it in the fish’s food; however it can also be dosed directly into a quarantine tank. Use until symptoms (white stringy poop) are gone.

Whether or not metro is “reef safe” is a topic for debate. The general consensus is that while soaking it in fish food IS “reef safe,” dosing it directly into the water column IS NOT and should only be done in quarantine.

Pros - Can be soaked in fish food, making it (somewhat) reef safe.

Cons/Side Effects - In my experience, certain fish seem to have an adverse reaction to it. But these are in the minority.

 

[eeyore357]

I got metroplex, kanaplex, maracyn two, and formalin ms, in the mail this week. I dosed the prazi yesterday.... Maybe a water change and carbon tomorrow morning then metro tomorrow night?

 

[Humblefish]

I got metroplex, kanaplex, maracyn two, and formalin ms, in the mail this week. I dosed the prazi yesterday.... Maybe a water change and carbon tomorrow morning then metro tomorrow night?

Give the prazi a full 72 hrs, do the WC and then begin Metroplex.

 

[eeyore357]

Did a waterchange a few hrs ago and ran some carbon for a few hrs. I made a paste with metro, selcon, and food pellets. Just fed it. The clowns might have ate some but didn't really seem interested. The tang may not be a tang and might be a pig with fins. The clowns were scratching a lot today and tang still has faint red spots. I checked the water after the waterchange my nitrite is still high but ammonia and nitrate are 0. Going to check my ph in a few.

 

[eeyore357]

Did the second dose of metro last night. The clowns are still scratching with no other symptoms that I see. This morning I couldn't see any red spots/blotches on the tang. He/she was a very bright yellow so that may be why. He's usually a little pale in the morning but not today. He hasn't been this bright of a yellow before.

 

[Humblefish]

When you say the clowns are scratching... are they targeting a specific area of their body? Like the gills?

 

[eeyore357]

They will swim up to the pvc, heater, or powerhead. Put the side of their face/mouth against it and "take off" rubbing their side. They could be scratching face, gills, or whole side of body I guess. That's the best description I can come up with. I can try to get some video if needed.

 

[Humblefish]

They will swim up to the pvc, heater, or powerhead. Put the side of their face/mouth against it and "take off" rubbing their side. They could be scratching face, gills, or whole side of body I guess. That's the best description I can come up with. I can try to get some video if needed.

Sometimes fish will display "phantom symptoms" even after a disease is gone. Gill flukes (and ich) feed on the gills and after these are gone tissue regrows, causing an itchy sensation. Think of it akin to how your skin feels after a sunburn and the peeling starts. But if the scratching continues, I would suspect either ich or flukes are still present inside their gills. Keep me posted. The next step may be to do a FW dip to be sure flukes are not still present.