Need help with diagnosis

eeyore357 · Mar 10, 2015

I'll keep an eye on it. Any idea what the minimum maxipro treatment would be? I can't thank you enough for all of your help with this!

Humblefish · Mar 10, 2015

eeyore357 said:
I'll keep an eye on it. Any idea what the minimum maxipro treatment would be? I can't thank you enough for all of your help with this!

Maxipro? You mean Prazipro?

eeyore357 · Mar 10, 2015

Lol I meant to say metroplex. All of these meds are running together I guess.

Humblefish · Mar 10, 2015

eeyore357 said:
Lol I meant to say metroplex. All of these meds are running together I guess.

I use 2 measure spoons (included) per 10 gals every other day. It's really hard to overdose metro.

eeyore357 · Mar 10, 2015

It says to go 3 weeks max or until symptoms disappear. As far as I can tell the symptoms have disappeared but it seems too soon to stop treatment. Maybe if I dont see any symptoms for a week?

Humblefish · Mar 10, 2015

eeyore357 said:
It says to go 3 weeks max or until symptoms disappear. As far as I can tell the symptoms have disappeared but it seems too soon to stop treatment. Maybe if I dont see any symptoms for a week?

I would treat with metro for at least a week, or longer if the white stringy poop persists.

eeyore357 · Mar 13, 2015

I haven't seen white stringy poop in 8 days and the tang has looked great for about 4 days. The clowns haven't scratched for a few days. Just dosed metro again. Maybe do a WC Sunday and see how things go?

Humblefish · Mar 13, 2015

eeyore357 said:
I haven't seen white stringy poop in 8 days and the tang has looked great for about 4 days. The clowns haven't scratched for a few days. Just dosed metro again. Maybe do a WC Sunday and see how things go?

:thumb:

eeyore357 · Mar 16, 2015

I'm sad to report that the clowns are scratching more and more. I haven't seen any other symptoms. To the best of my knowledge the only thing I haven't treated them for is brooklynella, prazi resistant flukes, and gram-negative bacteria. Should I wait and see what happens without any medication in the water? Maybe more symptoms will appear that could help narrow the problem down.
Do you think the fish could last this long if it is broolynella?

eeyore357 · Mar 16, 2015

20150316 160229: http://youtu.be/DYWX7lyOyr0

Humblefish · Mar 17, 2015

Brook & bacterial infections have very obvious physical symptoms. From what I saw in that video, the clown is targeting the head/gill area when he scratches. Two possibilities: ich or gill flukes. In order to determine which it is, you are going to have to give at least one of the clowns a FW dip (see below). If gill flukes are present, you will see tiny white specks fall out of the gills at around the 3-4 minute mark. Try to use a dark bucket (preferably black) and check with a flashlight after the dip to look for white specks that may have settled to the bottom.

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

eeyore357 · Mar 17, 2015

I was afraid you were going to say that....

eeyore357 · Mar 17, 2015

The clowns look very bad this morning. Scratching, staying in the powerhead flow, ..... I was looking at them closely and when one of them turned towards me I could see what looks like 100s of tiny pieces dead skin covering the whole body. I don't see any white spots.

bneufelder · Mar 17, 2015

If it was velvet, they would of been dead a long time ago. I would split off your QT to get the tang out. They create a lot of waste and the added ammonia is complicating your QT process. I would setup a 10g and put the clowns in it and start over.

Humblefish · Mar 17, 2015

eeyore357 said:
The clowns look very bad this morning. Scratching, staying in the powerhead flow, ..... I was looking at them closely and when one of them turned towards me I could see what looks like 100s of tiny pieces dead skin covering the whole body. I don't see any white spots.

Can you get a pic of this? Does it look like the skin is peeling or sloughing off? If so, that would be Brooklynella.

eeyore357 · Mar 17, 2015

I wouldn't say peeling.. It looks more like ich "exit wounds" but much smaller. But I've never seen an ich infestation in person (maybe) just going by google images. I don't see any difference in appearance unless they face me then I can see... raised specks. That may be a more accurate description. Picture is a no go. They aren't use to the camera. Ammonia is 0 I've done two 25% WCs the past two days.

eeyore357 · Mar 17, 2015

It seems like copper, prazi, and metro kept whatever this is at bay, but not killed it.

Humblefish · Mar 17, 2015

I've seen copper suppress brook but then it comes back. So, I'm starting to suspect that is what's happening with your clowns. But I'm far from 100% sure. It sounds like it could also be Uronema marinum. Below is my write up on Brook & Uronema. Snorvich did a nice write up on both (on RC) here: Brooklynella hostilis and Uronema marinum - Reef Central Online Community

Brooklynella:

Symptoms – This is most often seen in clownfish, but it can afflict any fish. The fish’s skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off, oftentimes causing excessive white mucous to form around the affected area(s).

Treatment options - Formalin bath, followed by additional formalin baths (as needed - but give the fish a day to recuperate in-between baths). You can use formalin in a QT (at a much lower concentration than the bath), but great care must be taken to provide plenty of gas exchange as formalin will quickly deplete the water of oxygen. For this reason, doing baths is the safer option as the fish can be pulled from the formalin if showing signs of distress.Formalin-MS is preferred, as that contains 37% formaldehyde. However, in a bind, any medication containing formalin (ex. Quick Cure) is better than nothing. Alternative treatments for brook include metronidazole (ex. Seachem MetroPlex) and acriflavine (ex. Acriflavine-MS). A freshwater dip may provide temporary relief if you are unable to locate any of the aforementioned medications right away.

Uronema marinum:

Symptoms - These are the red sores often seen on chromis damsels. The disease seems mostly confined to damsels and clownfish, but I have seen some exceptions to that.

Treatment options - This is a very difficult disease to treat. Possible treatment options include: Metronidazole (ex. Seachem MetroPlex), acriflavine (ex.Acriflavine-MS), Chloroquine phosphate and copper. The problem is the fish can never be returned to the infected tank from which it came. Uronema is a “free living” parasite which does not require a fish host. So, going fallow will not eradicate it. Most fish seem protected from it via their natural immune system; but for some reason, chromis and some other fish are not always afforded this protection. Once a tank has Uronema, it must be assumed that the disease can survive in there almost indefinitely.

Formalin bath or freshwater dip may provide temporary relief for Uronema.