Stay away from Hydor

[Brew12]

Is this your way of telling me to get back into the fish disease forum where I belong?

Not at all! In order to have picked up your medical expertise I imagine you have had to have used a wide variety of equipment. Much to my wife's chagrin, my sense of humor is both bad and uncontained sometimes.

 

[jasonrusso]

Interesting! Can you post a pic of that tank?

Here you go. 5x2x2

See, no wires.

 

[jasonrusso]

Fyi. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/7/aafeature

The jury will be out until I see the performance of the Vortech. I may like it, I may hate it but it is a learning experience.

 

[Humblefish]

Not at all! In order to have picked up your medical expertise I imagine you have had to have used a wide variety of equipment. Much to my wife's chagrin, my sense of humor is both bad and uncontained sometimes.

I get deals on equipment from LFS I advise. So, that means whatever they wanna get rid of.

 

[mcarroll]

It's a standard 180 with 12" cut off the end - cool!

And I see what you are doing now with the pump.

I still must say there's definitely no reason to spend even $200 let alone four or $500 to get the flow you are looking for...but if that's not a big deal, then it's not a big deal.

Additionally, having the motors outside the tank is nicer in theory than anything else. In spite of your recent experiences, air cooled motors are sort of a gimmick. They are louder as a result and the motor is now an eyesore on the outside of the tank in most situations....and a potential accident when the motor gets bumped off the glass. These issues may be more or less relevant in your situation, but I would remain aware of them.

2¢

 

[Brew12]

It's a standard 180 with 12" cut off the end - cool!

And I see what you are doing now with the pump.

I still must say there's definitely no reason to spend even $200 let alone four or $500 to get the flow you are looking for...but if that's not a big deal, then it's not a big deal.

Additionally, having the motors outside the tank is nicer in theory than anything else. In spite of your recent experiences, air cooled motors are sort of a gimmick. They are louder as a result and the motor is now an eyesore on the outside of the tank in most situations....and a potential accident when the motor gets bumped off the glass. These issues may be more or less relevant in your situation, but I would remain aware of them.

2¢

I think the Vortech MP40's have a few advantages. The biggest is that it is outside the tank so there is no chance of stray voltage in the tank. This means it is safer to use without a GFCI and also makes it a good candidate for putting on a battery back up system to maintain flow during a power outage. I also like the fact that if it does get knocked off the tank the impeller will stop and not send sand flying everywhere like a submerged powerhead would.
I do agree that they are more of an eyesore on the outside of the tank and they are also louder. Still playing around with mine but anything over around 60% is very noticeable.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Don't use a ground probe and a gfci together.

 

[jasonrusso]

Don't use a ground probe and a gfci together.

Why?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/e...afci-ground-probes.215701/page-2#post-2849591

 

[jasonrusso]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/e...afci-ground-probes.215701/page-2#post-2849591

Um, did you read the thread? It says why you should use both.

Fyi, a grounding probe makes a GFI work better. I'm even going to say that you shouldn't use a grounding rod without a GFI, you might not know you have an issue because nothing is tripping.

 

[Brew12]

Um, did you read the thread? It says why you should use both.

Fyi, a grounding probe makes a GFI work better. I'm even going to say that you shouldn't use a grounding rod without a GFI, you might not know you have an issue because nothing is tripping.

I would recommend always using a ground probe but it is worth researching the drawbacks of using one without a GFCI.

 

[Humblefish]

I would recommend always using a ground probe but it is worth researching the drawbacks of using one without a GFCI.

Is it because the probe will absorb the stray voltage and the GFCI never trips? So you'll never know you have a piece of equipment that's leaking stray voltage? I've also read any fish between the source and the grounding probe will experience a current flowing through their bodies.

 

[jasonrusso]

The GFI compares the current leaving the hot to the current returning into the neutral. The ground is not monitored. In a perfect world, nothing should be returning through the ground. Its usually grounded to a housing just in case there is a short.

My point is, if you have a grounding rod, and there is just a slight current leak, the rod will absorb it without you knowing you have an issue. There is no GFI to trip.

In my case, I had a GFI with no grounding rod. It wasn't until I installed the rod that I noticed the GFI trip. So in my opinion, the stray voltage was making its way back to the neutral some how (through the water) and the power out and in were the same. After the rod was installed, there was a direct path to ground and now the power out and in were different

 

[Brew12]

Is it because the probe will absorb the stray voltage and the GFCI never trips? So you'll never know you have a piece of equipment that's leaking stray voltage? I've also read any fish between the source and the grounding probe will experience a current flowing through their bodies.

I hope I understand your question correctly. You are asking why I would use one but it does have drawbacks without GFCI?

If so, this is my thought process. All of the water in the tank will be at the same voltage. If you have a metal rimmed tank, or if you have algae/salt tracking that goes to something that is grounded, you will still have current flow. The resistance of the path to ground and the amount of voltage in the tank will determine how much current flows. So even if you don't have a ground plug you can still get current flowing to ground, it just won't be controlled.

I am not an expert on fish anatomy, but I think the voltage does almost as much harm as the current. I suspect that fish have a slightly higher resistance than the water they live in. If that is the case, the majority of the current will flow around them anyway. Fish give off low voltage electrical signals all the time. Since salt water isn't completely uniform and different water flows will cause slight fluctuations in voltage, I believe that this impacts fish more than the current itself does. By using a grounding probe you effectively bring this voltage down to zero.

The big drawback I see is the potential for heat. If you have a pump fail and short to the tank it will always have 120V if there is no current flow. If you have a grounding probe installed in the tank enough current will flow to bring voltage down to zero across that fault. This will generate heat. Odds are your breaker wont trip until you get the total load on the circuit greater than 20 amps so this possibility of heat is substantial. I believe that this is a very unlikely occurrence. The resistence of your fault would have to be greater than 6 ohms to not trip the breaker (assuming it is the only thing on the circuit) but less than 60 ohms or it won't pull enough current to generate heat.

For me, the safety of having a grounding probe outweighs the risk posed by this heat source. Ideally, you would have a GFCI in combination with a ground probe for anything that is 120VAC in your tank.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/stray-voltage-and-current-help.189444/#post-2174405

 

[Humblefish]

@Brew12 Thank you for that explanation.

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 Thank you for that explanation.

Glad to help! I may not know aquariums but I know electricity!

 

[Paul B]

Cutting off the plug and re connecting it will be no problem.
They made tools Double Insulated for a reason. It was an accident. When we used to have good power tools most of the tool was metal. Then tool manufacturers realized that plastic was much cheaper than metal so all the tool manufacturers went to plastic tools. Then they figured out, Wow, now that the tool is plastic, there is no good reason to ground it because there is nothing to ground. Now we can eliminate that expensive 3 conductor wire and that annoying ground prong on the plug.
Plastic tools have some advantages besides that they are cheaper. They are also lighter.
Virtually all power tools are made over seas now so I cringe when I have to buy one as I prefer to keep fixing my old, American Tools. It's just me.

 

[Salsa777]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I was working on my tank just now, and thinking about buying a hydor to put in my sump to help blow around the detritus per the "tips for keeping acros" sticky, so i was researching and found this thread.

I was thinking about the hydor I have in my DT. It is over 10 years old, it is the most powerful first generation hydor, and it works great still. I will probably replace it soon, but man, ten years and three reef tanks. pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

[mcarroll]

Gen1's were like tanks. Gen2 more like run over by a tank. Not sure on Gen3.