I want to put a mandarin trained to eat PE mysis in the red sea max nano it's 20 gallons. I would also keep 1 clownfish lots of corals mixed. 20 lb. Of live rock with in rear Santa Monica .6 drop I love algae scrubbers. With the red sea max nano protein skimmer and carbon. It might be overkill for filteration but I don't care. would the tank be to small?
Trained mandarin tank size
- Thread starter Southpawzzz
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Leslie Tabor
Valuable Member
That tank would not support a mandarin. This idea of a "trained" fish is what gets a lot of these fish dead. Yes, you can get them to eat frozen foods but that is IMO not a proper way to care for this fish. They live on pods in the wild for a reason. Eventually a mandarin in a tank that small would starve. They eat constantly, all day long. They need a large tank with a lot of live rock to graze on.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
The real issue is that these fish have a very small digestive track so you would need to feed it 10+ times a day. Another option would be to raise your own Brine Shrimp and make a Paul B mandarin/pipefish feeder.
http://reef2reef.com/threads/thanks-paulb-mandarin-feeder.263752/#post-3147091
This releases the shrimp over a long period of time giving the mandy the constant food supply it needs.
http://reef2reef.com/threads/thanks-paulb-mandarin-feeder.263752/#post-3147091
This releases the shrimp over a long period of time giving the mandy the constant food supply it needs.
eatbreakfast
Fish Nerd
Have you heard of Biota? This place captive breeds all sorts of fish including mandarins. I don't have one of their mandarins but I have heard a lot of good things about them. The are suppose to eat frozen foods right away and they are really small. When you get them, they are a little smaller than an inch. It would still be pretty difficult to keep one in a tank that size. The BBS feeder is a very good idea. You would have to keep a steady supply of pods and feed them frozen foods as much as you can. Here is a thread about them-
http://reef2reef.com/threads/biota-mandarins.289156/
http://reef2reef.com/threads/biota-mandarins.289156/
Leslie Tabor
Valuable Member
This is not new, anyone heard of ORA?? They USED to offer captive bred mandarins but they stopped because people who purchased their captive bred mandarins expected them to be easier to feed and when they were not those people got really upset about the high price they paid for a captive bred dead fish. Being "captive bred" does not change an animals basic needs. Some people have luck with sponge set ups that they seed pods into if they don't have a large enough tank to have enough live rock to sustain a large pod population. In this case, we are talking about 20 gal nano, IMO this is just not a proper home for a mandarin. Maybe there is someone on here who has kept one, however these guys have potential to live 15 years, so if they say they have had one in a nano for 3 months and it is doing great, take that into consideration. These are beautiful fish, it breaks my heart to see them starving in pet stores. If you decide to try it, just be prepared. Good luck.
I agree, you should not get a mandarin unless your tank or you can provide the pods they need, that's 1-3 per minute on the average, non stop all day, that's a lot of pods.
The average size requirement is a minimum of 50g w/ at least 1-2lbs of live rock and a fuge per mandarin, anything less will require special care, as in culturing pods or buying them.
People have been trying to skate around this basic need many times, but it very rarely works out long term, and is cruel to the animal, they usually starve out, and once you see signs of this it's often too late to bring them back.
The average size requirement is a minimum of 50g w/ at least 1-2lbs of live rock and a fuge per mandarin, anything less will require special care, as in culturing pods or buying them.
People have been trying to skate around this basic need many times, but it very rarely works out long term, and is cruel to the animal, they usually starve out, and once you see signs of this it's often too late to bring them back.
I kept my pair in a 20 fusion gallon for about a year before I got a tank upgrade.
Trained on frozen. Everyone will say that it can't be done. I disagree. It can be, but you just need to take into consideration their feeding habits. I fed mine frozen 4-5 times a day.
Yes, they're still alive.
Trained on frozen. Everyone will say that it can't be done. I disagree. It can be, but you just need to take into consideration their feeding habits. I fed mine frozen 4-5 times a day.
Yes, they're still alive.
Leslie Tabor
Valuable Member
I won't say it can't be done, I just want people to be successful with them as so many die. Mine were eating frozen when I got them but I waited to get them until my tank was well established and HEAVILY stocked my tank with pods for months in preparation for them and they quickly turned away from frozen and graze entirely on pods. In my mind, they must get something more from pods than frozen or at the very least prefer pods. I don't want to be labeled "The Mandarin Police" lol but they are the whole reason I got in this hobby so I am a little passionate about these little guys.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
That is dedication. I don't have a Mandy yet because I can only reasonably feed twice a day.
My pod population is just about ready at this point. But, I run a 120g DT with a 55g sump that has a large refugium.
Well, as they can take a year to starve out, you may have only extended that period w/ feeding 4-5x a day, if you do the math on what they take in on an average daily that is still not really enough IMO.
There is a difference between surviving and thriving.
Harris3005
Active Member
When it comes to mandarins eating anything other than pods I feel like it's best to be prepared to fail and have the pod population and tank size to fall back on if they won't accept other foods or stop doing so. People on the forum are probably sick of me talking about my pair of mandarin dragonets but I had always planned to try to "train" them onto prepared foods I still waited until I had the correct set up to fall back on if it didn't work. My pair eat a specific type of pellet food 2-3 times a day but still spend most of their time grazing the rocks for pods in my 450 litre/120g. I'd never tell someone what they can and can't do but maybe just wait until you have the chance to upgrade your tank and give them the best chance. They are the most amazing fish you'll ever own in my opinion and worth the extra patience and effort!
I agree with this. I was just saying that if @Southpawzzz was determined to keep a mandarin, a biota mandarin would have the best chance of surviving.
Southpawzzz
Active Member
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I spent almost an 2 hours with 1 tank a day but I would do what is best for the animal I might but the odds are not what would you guys recommend for a 20 gallon tank I like exotic species of fish and invertibrite and species only tank any thoughts
FranklinDattein
Active Member
I managed to train a mandarin to eat pellets and keep it for a couple of years in a 130lt tank.
However, I would NOT recommend it, because the training process requires a long term dedication and most importantly, the amount of feeds it requires, will make it very difficult to mantain low nitrates.
If you succeed, the fish will survive, but it is likely everything else will struggle with nitrates.
However, I would NOT recommend it, because the training process requires a long term dedication and most importantly, the amount of feeds it requires, will make it very difficult to mantain low nitrates.
If you succeed, the fish will survive, but it is likely everything else will struggle with nitrates.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
A Mantis shrimp?
And really, if you do a bbs shrimp feeder per the Paul B design you could keep a healthy Mandy. It just takes a lot of dedication to keep hatching the shrimp. Supplement it with pods and run your tank a little dirty with an "in tank refugium" where the Mandy can't get. It's up to you to know if that is something you can do to take care of the fish.
I can guarantee they are not starved out. They were fed well enough and happy enough for the female to be constantly berried and both are plump and fat. None of my fish just "survive" and all of my fish are fat and happy.
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I am certainly not saying it's easy. It takes proper forethought and planning, as well as patience and dedication, as well as scoping out the right mandarin at the store.
I am just contending it can be done if you are dedicated enough. I love my mandarin pair and I always advise people seeking to purchase them at my lfs of the possible hardships and the need to pay extra attention to these fish. I see many mandarins even in large tanks after a couple of months and it kills me a little. I always want to buy all the ones I see that are clearly starving to give them a shot that something other than death by starvation.
Interestingly enough, my pair has never turned away from frozen. They swim to their little corner of the tank whenever the pumps go off in preparation for their food being dropped in.
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