Vodka Method

[traumajeff]

traumajeff, this is where I am pulling the 5ml reference from. I won't say 5ml per week across the board, it all depends on your tank size where you start and how much you bump your dose up. I was just going off the reference made here.

I believe you can raise dosing more frequently or the amounts more then the chart says and most tanks can handle it. Can all? No, but there is no one thing fits all in any part of this hobby.

Guess it is this. Test your nitrates and phosphates. Then begin dosing. Ramp up dosing per chart or a little bit more, but not over dosing. Continue to test for nitrates and phosphates, preferrably before upping the dose weekly. Once you see your levels start to fall, cut the dose in half and monitor. You may need to adjust the dose if your levels rise again.

I totally agree that every setup is different. I definitely didn't follow the recommendations for vsv when I started. From what I gathered in my research of dosing though, vodka seemed to need smaller increases in volume to titrate as opposed to vinegar, where one could be a bit more liberal. My understanding is that this is based upon the relative % of carbon source in each.

I may be way off by my understanding of when & how things take place with dosing, but I've always thought it was never meant to be a quick cure. I thought that while one could "cheat" the dose to either be higher in volume or to have more frequent increases, you couldn't rush the actual biological process. Meaning, that an increase in bacteria and benefits doesn't always increase with higher dosage. ie... The same bacterial count/nitrate level may be seen on week "x" with 1ml or 10ml. It becomes a matter of how quickly the process goes by itself vs how quickly we can make it go.

With that said, if your therapeutic dose were 8ml and you increased dosage by 1ml/week, then it would take 8 weeks to determine this. If you increased your dosage by 5ml, it would only take 2 weeks. While the shortened time frame is nice, in the end you are now 2ml above therapeutic levels. While this isn't a crazy amount, we can't account for his tank's ability to compensate properly, variables in filtration, feeding regiment, and other factors. Meaning the extra could have a detrimental effect in some way or another (I realize the probability of this is low with that low of a dose, but I work nights and I'm tired and 8 seemed like a good number).

Vodka honestly doesn't need large amounts to be therapeutic and "overdosing" runs the risk of cyano as well as other nasties. Again, I'm all for cranking up the volume a little, but to me 5ml increases seem like a lot when your end volume for 100g will probably end up in the 10ml range. To me, making jumps of 5ml seems more justified when you're looking at a jump from 110-115 with an anticipated end point of 125 or so. It'd just be easier to titrate with lower incremental doses is all.

 

[rayn]

I have dosed a 40, 120 & 125 and I have yet to have a low ml for my maintenance dose. That is where my experience comes from. Is his tank mine? Not hardly and he could have different results, I can only go off my experiences.

I would never say it is a quick fix and not always the best option. If you can run gfo, water change, and manually remove it and win then all the better. Carbon isn't quick, but it does help in the long run.

I have never done vinegar or sugar, but I understand the amounts for them are different as they have different levels then vodka. 10ml seems way low to me on the end dose of vodka dosing.

 

[traumajeff]

How much were/are you dosing for those tanks? Just curious... the most I've seen was around 30-40ml, but that was on a ~400g system.

 

[hart24601]

Just FYI I dose 22ml vodka per day in my 120 with no issues.

 

[Wiz]

I agree the charts are conservative. But in my tank we are tslking thousands of dollars!!!! 5 ml a week might be a lil much. I srarted with three instead of the recomendation. And will raise a ml a week. I want to be sure I don't hurt my life. My reef. Slow and easy. Thats what my dad said. Lol plus mine is only 50 gal. In all.

 

[traumajeff]

I agree the charts are conservative. But in my tank we are tslking thousands of dollars!!!! 5 ml a week might be a lil much. I srarted with three instead of the recomendation. And will raise a ml a week. I want to be sure I don't hurt my life. My reef. Slow and easy. Thats what my dad said. Lol plus mine is only 50 gal. In all.

This is what I was getting at. Being a nurse and former paramedic, my brain is set to "titrate to the lowest amount possible and do it as slow as possible". It's why when we dose, we don't raise low levels all at once, but instead we do it incrementally. This allows for adjustments to be more proactive vs reactive. Test, add, repeat until desired results are achieved. Obviously from the above post though, my thoughts on an end point may have been low. Definitely something I wouldn't have expected. I guess it's all relative to each individual setup. I'd love to see more people post their therapeutic levels. It's honestly good to know that what I once thought was my "ceiling" has been broken by someone with similar volume. Definitely something I can use in the future.

 

[rayn]

How much were/are you dosing for those tanks? Just curious... the most I've seen was around 30-40ml, but that was on a ~400g system.

I dose 6ml in the 40 and 14ml in the 120. The 40 is still ramping up, the 120 is as low as it is because it was started from day one of the tank. I was dosing a 125 at around 30ml a day and still had nitrates. I will add the 125 was a messy predator tank though.

 

[Maltese]

Now i'm getting confused on which dose i'm going to use. All my set-up is around 120g the tank and refugium. Right now i am dosing 5ml everyday for a week. 2.5ml in the morning and 2.5ml in the evening.

 

[traumajeff]

Now i'm getting confused on which dose i'm going to use. All my set-up is around 120g the tank and refugium. Right now i am dosing 5ml everyday for a week. 2.5ml in the morning and 2.5ml in the evening.

That's fine IMO. Up to you how much you increase your weekly dose. Personally I would go with a smaller amount (1-2ml) as I like to be more conservative. Whatever you do, test weekly. Once your happy with results, you can back off some, testing to find your sweet spot.

 

[Wiz]

Now i'm getting confused on which dose i'm going to use. All my set-up is around 120g the tank and refugium. Right now i am dosing 5ml everyday for a week. 2.5ml in the morning and 2.5ml in the evening.

I think 5 should be a good start for your size tank. But I agree jumping 5 every week might be alot. you want to give the bacteria time to colonize. If you go too fast you might over jump where you need to be. it might take a bit longer, but everything in reefing takes a long time. so we are used to that lol. 5 may be ok though. Its really your choice. Just keep a good eye out for affects and test weekly.

 

[CORAL JUNKY]

Hey guys I've been dosing for 2 weeks now with no change to my nitrates . I've been dosing 1ml a day for both weeks and an curious if Im dosing enough or if I need to just be more patient . Tank and sump = 100 gallons

 

[Maltese]

That's fine IMO. Up to you how much you increase your weekly dose. Personally I would go with a smaller amount (1-2ml) as I like to be more conservative. Whatever you do, test weekly. Once your happy with results, you can back off some, testing to find your sweet spot.

I begin my first dose 4 weeks ago. It was 0.5ml for a week......2nd week i increased to 1.0ml..........3rd week i increased to 2.0ml and now that i'm on the 4th week and i do regularly check water parameters, and my nitrates are still the same increased to 5.0 ml. What do you think, i always like to share my ideas, because i like to do the right thing. I don't want to harm my and even my soft corals. My tank is 4 years old now and i don't want to ruin everything what do you think ?

 

[fcad]

I begin my first dose 4 weeks ago. It was 0.5ml for a week......2nd week i increased to 1.0ml..........3rd week i increased to 2.0ml and now that i'm on the 4th week and i do regularly check water parameters, and my nitrates are still the same increased to 5.0 ml. What do you think, i always like to share my ideas, because i like to do the right thing. I don't want to harm my and even my soft corals. My tank is 4 years old now and i don't want to ruin everything what do you think ?

Every tank is different, the best way to find your dosis is testing, buy a good set of testers for nitrates, phosphates,alk, calcium,etc and test your water at least once a week. Pay attention to your corals, if they close or change colors...your dosis is to high. In my case after 2 weeks using vsv i found my dosis, 6 ml everyday of vsv. Dosis depends of the amount of fishes, sps or lps corals, type of food you used, etc,etc. VSV doesn't affect only nitrates or nitrites, affect the whole parameters of the water, and remember, phosphates for sps needs to be on 0.03, but for lps you need 0.05-0.08, so u need to test at least once a week your dosis. Best testers for the water are Hanna Checkers. Have a nice reefing day

 

[CORAL JUNKY]

Sorry but I'm really in no position to b giving advice. Lol . I'm actually newer to the hobby and my set up is only a year old. I'm completely new to this whole DOSING idea so I'm not ever sure if I'm doing if right. But as I've read in here slow and steady is always a better idea than trying to rush anything .

 

[fcad]

I begin my first dose 4 weeks ago. It was 0.5ml for a week......2nd week i increased to 1.0ml..........3rd week i increased to 2.0ml and now that i'm on the 4th week and i do regularly check water parameters, and my nitrates are still the same increased to 5.0 ml. What do you think, i always like to share my ideas, because i like to do the right thing. I don't want to harm my and even my soft corals. My tank is 4 years old now and i don't want to ruin everything what do you think ?

Every tank is different, the best way to find your dosis is testing, buy a good set of testers for nitrates, phosphates,alk, calcium,etc and test your water at least once a week. Pay attention to your corals, if they close or change colors...your dosis is to high. In my case after 2 weeks using vsv i found my dosis, 6 ml everyday of vsv. Dosis depends of the amount of fishes, sps or lps corals, type of food you used, etc,etc. VSV doesn't affect only nitrates or nitrites, affect the whole parameters of the water, and remember, phosphates for sps needs to be on 0.03, but for lps you need 0.05-0.08, so u need to test at least once a week your dosis. Best testers for the water are Hanna Checkers. Have a nice reefing day

 

[Maltese]

Every tank is different, the best way to find your dosis is testing, buy a good set of testers for nitrates, phosphates,alk, calcium,etc and test your water at least once a week. Pay attention to your corals, if they close or change colors...your dosis is to high. In my case after 2 weeks using vsv i found my dosis, 6 ml everyday of vsv. Dosis depends of the amount of fishes, sps or lps corals, type of food you used, etc,etc. VSV doesn't affect only nitrates or nitrites, affect the whole parameters of the water, and remember, phosphates for sps needs to be on 0.03, but for lps you need 0.05-0.08, so u need to test at least once a week your dosis. Best testers for the water are Hanna Checkers. Have a nice reefing day

In my country what i can find are Salifert or API. For the last 4 years i use Salifert kits. I think i made a good choice.

 

[Maltese]

Sorry but I'm really in no position to b giving advice. Lol . I'm actually newer to the hobby and my set up is only a year old. I'm completely new to this whole DOSING idea so I'm not ever sure if I'm doing if right. But as I've read in here slow and steady is always a better idea than trying to rush anything .

Yes, I'll think you're right!

 

[rayn]

From your starting dose up the amount like you want. 5ml isn't for everyone or every tank. Every tank differs. If you want to up 1ml, that is fine.

Point is this. You are dosing. Check your nitrates weekly, at a minimum. Raise your chosen amount weekly be it 1ml or 5ml. Once you see your nitrates start to drop, cut the dose in half. That amount is your maintenance dosage. Keep checking nitrates, you may need to adjust your maintenance dose levels. Each tank is different.

 

[Maltese]

From your starting dose up the amount like you want. 5ml isn't for everyone or every tank. Every tank differs. If you want to up 1ml, that is fine.

Point is this. You are dosing. Check your nitrates weekly, at a minimum. Raise your chosen amount weekly be it 1ml or 5ml. Once you see your nitrates start to drop, cut the dose in half. That amount is your maintenance dosage. Keep checking nitrates, you may need to adjust your maintenance dose levels. Each tank is different.

Yes rayn you're right, That's my point. Can i ask another question? Can I use KZ Zeovit Concentrate Amino Acid while dosing Vodka Method?

 

[traumajeff]

From your starting dose up the amount like you want. 5ml isn't for everyone or every tank. Every tank differs. If you want to up 1ml, that is fine.

Point is this. You are dosing. Check your nitrates weekly, at a minimum. Raise your chosen amount weekly be it 1ml or 5ml. Once you see your nitrates start to drop, cut the dose in half. That amount is your maintenance dosage. Keep checking nitrates, you may need to adjust your maintenance dose levels. Each tank is different.

+1

spot on!