Who needs a garage? - 210g "game room" build

[SereneAquatic]

I don't usually post here on R2R, having started a while ago on RC, but it seems like everyone is here now lol. I have our build thread there from our journey into the hobby almost 2 years ago, and it's time for a tank upgrade!

Husband and I have learned a lot on the past couple of years, and somehow we are still brave / bonkers enough to want to go bigger.

Our first tank was a Red Sea Reefer 425xl...and I regretted it almost immediately. It was too big to be a small tank, and too small to be a big tank. I actually love our 30 Gallon Red Sea nano 1000x more than the approx 90g tank. I think I even like the 55g generic QT setup more than the 90... Which is ridiculous.

To solve our issues, we are building a 210g setup in our attached garage, and turning the space into livable gaming area.

We found a tank through a local FB group, but unfortunately the guy who sold it to us had no clue what he was doing... But he seemed confident and we didn't ask enough questions. What he sold as a 250g is actually a 210. If he counted his sump, the total was probably 250 in total volume, but that isn't what he told us. We didn't do the math for the dimensions , so I guess it's shame on us.

The next thing we realized once we got into it was that there was NO POSSIBLE WAY that the tank had been properly sitting on the steel frame stand he sold us with the corner over flow down pipes where they are. The steel frame is 2 inches per rail, and the return pipe hole is only 1.5 inches from the back of the tank... To have the tank plumbed the way he did, the tank would have had to be shifted forward on the frame and over hanging the front ledge. Not good.

The glass is also very scratched, much more than was visible with the lights he had over it and the light blue painted background. We have buffed as much as we can but it is miserable and there are a lot left. We are hoping that they will continue to be as "invisible" as they were when we looked at it. With no water in it they are painfully obvious.

We are left wondering now what we really got when we bought this tank... But for better or worse, we have decided to go forward with it.

So far we have
-buffed the glass
-repainted the back in the area where he had applied a decal
-applied Rustoleum to the stand
-leveled the stand
-cut a new (nicer) 1.5 inch plywood top for the stand and sealed it
-cut holes in the plywood for the drain pipes and sealed them
-put screws down through it to secure to the metal frame (sunk below the surface) and applied more sealant.

Next up go the lights before the tank is placed on the stand because the ceiling is really high in the garage and we don't want to have to work around the tank.

We plan to make this a FOWLR tank and keep the 90 as a reef tank. Maybe. Probably. The 90 is still annoying, but mostly because our tang is going to be too big for it soon. He was little when we got him, but he is a fat and happy little guy who just wants to get fatter. [emoji23]

Pics coming momentarily...wish us luck! If this tank busts apart because the former owner did stupid things we will be very sad. I'm hoping he didn't ruin the integrity of the tank... We did see it holding water... But who knows?

 

[Hitman]

Awesome keep us posted!

 

[SereneAquatic]

Here are pictures I took from the video I made when we went to inspect the tank. You can actually see the tank over hang the plywood a bit... The wood wasn't even cut straight.

What do you think... Are we asking for trouble using this tank?

Not sure how we missed it then. There are a couple of cracks in the frame as well. Would you risk it?

 

[Hitman]

You can pick up the plastic frames pretty cheap, so my recommendation is to replace the frame if it’s cracked through.

 

[SereneAquatic]

Well... we have decided not to use the scratched/busted frame tank. Our order with custom aquariums is nearly complete to replace it... and the bright side is we are also ordering a custom tank that we will create a sump with from them as well. With the display at 210g and the sump at about 100, we will have over 300g of water in this system.

The display tank dimensions (which I’m sure we will regret on the height lol) are 72L/24W/30H. The sump is custom sized to fit under the stand and take up as much of the space as possible.

In order to prep for the arrival of the last fish we need in QT on the stock list, the 4 that have been in QT for the last 3 months need to go into the 90 for a few weeks. Hello acclimation rodeo...

We are highly devoted to not keeping fish in situations where they are being bullied. However we do take some risks when it comes to adding new stock to the tank. In our latest endeavor, we are adding four new fish to a tank that already has five fish.

I have often felt like there is a threshold that is either avoided or exceeded in tanks that successfully keep “incompatible” fish... either the tank is very large and very under stocked, or the tank is chaotic with the number of fish in it, diffusing aggression simply by confusion. By adding all 4 of these guys at once I am hoping to do the latter and buy us enough time to QT the remaining 210 inhabitants without setting up a bunch of extra tanks. If things aren’t going well and a fish is in danger, we have fallback options.

The existing tank members in the 90 gallon are:

*two juvenile (and bonded) clown fish (a plain-jane Oscellaris and a Black Storm)
*one hybrid powder blue tang (about 6.5 inches)
*one lemon peel angel (about 4.5 inches)
*one pixie hawk fish (about 3 inches)

The fish in QT that we are trying to bring in are:

* One spot breast angelfish, almost as large as the tang
* One coral beauty angelfish (about 3.5 inches)
* One aiptasia eating filefish (about 1.5 inches big)
* One juvenile harlequin tusk (about 2.5 inches big)

This means that we have two pretty aggressive fish (the tang and the lemon peel) and are trying to do something almost impossible by adding another dwarf angel fish and a very peaceful angel. I have spent the better part of a day now monitoring them closely.

We are 24 hours into this experiment and so far the file fish and the harlequin tusk seem to have developed free roam of the tank without much issue.

Initially there was a lot of chasing from the Tang toward... everyone... but he quickly wore himself out with the job of trying to keep track of 4 new fish at once. His biggest issue was the spotbreast angel, so we placed it into an acclimation box for most of the daylight hours today. This afternoon I released him again and with a few chases and occasional submissive behavior from the angel they seem to be doing much better. I think they will be fine together soon.

The more dangerous experiment is with the dwarf angels. Lemon peel angels rank pretty high on the aggro list, and this one is mature. Once the lemon stopped hiding (he is cautious at first of new arrivals) he began chasing the coral beauty around on sight, even actively hunting for him. We had done some prep work before placing everyone in by adding lots of new live rock from another tank, so despite the efforts of the lemon, the coral beauty was pretty successful at avoiding him. The harassment wasn’t constant, so we left them alone to try to work it out.

Tank lights have remained off all day, and I have fed them all multiple times.

After watching them like a mother for most of the day, I actually think this might work. The dwarf angels are now occasionally swimming near each other, and in fact, the lemon seems to have now moved on to posturing with the spotbreast to establish who is in charge. (Quite obviously the lemonpeel). If they can all get along in the 90 for a few weeks, moving them into the 210 will be a breeze.

Fingers crossed and eyes open!

 

[SereneAquatic]

 

[SereneAquatic]

 

[HunterW]

I don't usually post here on R2R, having started a while ago on RC, but it seems like everyone is here now lol. I have our build thread there from our journey into the hobby almost 2 years ago, and it's time for a tank upgrade!

Husband and I have learned a lot on the past couple of years, and somehow we are still brave / bonkers enough to want to go bigger.

Our first tank was a Red Sea Reefer 425xl...and I regretted it almost immediately. It was too big to be a small tank, and too small to be a big tank. I actually love our 30 Gallon Red Sea nano 1000x more than the approx 90g tank. I think I even like the 55g generic QT setup more than the 90... Which is ridiculous.

To solve our issues, we are building a 210g setup in our attached garage, and turning the space into livable gaming area.

We found a tank through a local FB group, but unfortunately the guy who sold it to us had no clue what he was doing... But he seemed confident and we didn't ask enough questions. What he sold as a 250g is actually a 210. If he counted his sump, the total was probably 250 in total volume, but that isn't what he told us. We didn't do the math for the dimensions , so I guess it's shame on us.

The next thing we realized once we got into it was that there was NO POSSIBLE WAY that the tank had been properly sitting on the steel frame stand he sold us with the corner over flow down pipes where they are. The steel frame is 2 inches per rail, and the return pipe hole is only 1.5 inches from the back of the tank... To have the tank plumbed the way he did, the tank would have had to be shifted forward on the frame and over hanging the front ledge. Not good.

The glass is also very scratched, much more than was visible with the lights he had over it and the light blue painted background. We have buffed as much as we can but it is miserable and there are a lot left. We are hoping that they will continue to be as "invisible" as they were when we looked at it. With no water in it they are painfully obvious.

We are left wondering now what we really got when we bought this tank... But for better or worse, we have decided to go forward with it.

So far we have
-buffed the glass
-repainted the back in the area where he had applied a decal
-applied Rustoleum to the stand
-leveled the stand
-cut a new (nicer) 1.5 inch plywood top for the stand and sealed it
-cut holes in the plywood for the drain pipes and sealed them
-put screws down through it to secure to the metal frame (sunk below the surface) and applied more sealant.

Next up go the lights before the tank is placed on the stand because the ceiling is really high in the garage and we don't want to have to work around the tank.

We plan to make this a FOWLR tank and keep the 90 as a reef tank. Maybe. Probably. The 90 is still annoying, but mostly because our tang is going to be too big for it soon. He was little when we got him, but he is a fat and happy little guy who just wants to get fatter. [emoji23]

Pics coming momentarily...wish us luck! If this tank busts apart because the former owner did stupid things we will be very sad. I'm hoping he didn't ruin the integrity of the tank... We did see it holding water... But who knows?

Are you going to reseal it before going forward? I am doing this shortly to a used 92 c.bowfront. I have 4 other tanks that have never leaked and they are holding water now but they were in storage for a minute. Same going for a rehoming that I purchased that has f/w fish. Going to give them to a responsible school but keep the tank.
Butf or sure I gotta reseal the 92...ugh...not going to take a chance..although the owner said no leaks..Guest I will take out some stock for the glue I will be using...Planned fir a little being done today before my Sabbath but it won't happen , we JUST has a power outage and while I have battery backup system; I won't be gluing by candlelight... it's friggin hot here in TX.
I will follow your beautiful build. Have a great weekend.

 

[SereneAquatic]

Are you going to reseal it before going forward? I am doing this shortly to a used 92 c.bowfront. I have 4 other tanks that have never leaked and they are holding water now but they were in storage for a minute. Same going for a rehoming that I purchased that has f/w fish. Going to give them to a responsible school but keep the tank.
Butf or sure I gotta reseal the 92...ugh...not going to take a chance..although the owner said no leaks..Guest I will take out some stock for the glue I will be using...Planned fir a little being done today before my Sabbath but it won't happen , we JUST has a power outage and while I have battery backup system; I won't be gluing by candlelight... it's friggin hot here in TX.
I will follow your beautiful build. Have a great weekend.

Hey there! We have decided not to use that tank... it’s just too awful to imagine it breaking and losing all our fish. Instead we are spending money we shouldn’t spend to give them a proper upgrade. [emoji85]

 

[HunterW]

Way to go!!!

 

[bigdrew]

My 220G from my childhood cracked...in the family room. It was a complete disaster. It split at a bottom seam. Ruined everything: flooring, basement ceiling, basement flooring, some drywall on the walls and there was mold everywhere. We were out of town when it happened. The smell and cleanup was absolutely brutal. We had to have ServPro help (the disaster cleanup company)

It simply isn’t worth it. If there is any concern it won’t hold water, I wouldn’t do it.

I believe you made the right decision!

 

[SereneAquatic]

Way to go!!!

Hehehe...this is why we all love The Community... we are all enablers [emoji28]

 

[SereneAquatic]

My 220G from my childhood cracked...in the family room. It was a complete disaster. It split at a bottom seam. Ruined everything: flooring, basement ceiling, basement flooring, some drywall on the walls and there was mold everywhere. We were out of town when it happened. The smell and cleanup was absolutely brutal. We had to have ServPro help (the disaster cleanup company)

It simply isn’t worth it. If there is any concern it won’t hold water, I wouldn’t do it.

I believe you made the right decision!

I’m sorry you guys went through that, it must have been terrible to lose all your fish and deal with the aftermath on top of it. [emoji17]

We actually experienced a really bad house flood a couple years ago (broken pipe, not a broken fish tank) and are probably scarred for life. Putting the 90 in the house was scary... putting a 200+ ... simply not happening. In fact, the sooner we can get them all into the “game room/garage” the better. I will sleep easier!

 

[SereneAquatic]

@Mikedawg, it was a pleasure to meet you today! If you happen to notice us about to do something very stupid on this 210 build we would love your feedback!

 

[Mikedawg]

@Mikedawg, it was a pleasure to meet you today! If you happen to notice us about to do something very stupid on this 210 build we would love your feedback!

I enjoyed meeting you two as well and look forward to learning from you and your "experiments" with fish combinations in this new tank - you're probably some of the best fish psychologists on R2R!
Please keep us updated on your success.

 

[SereneAquatic]

It’s been 3 days of lights off in the tank... after checking on everyone when we returned home today, they seemed to be getting along well. Time to turn on the lights. It’s about an hour before the schedule turns them off for the day, and they are fairly dim at this hour, so it seems like a good time.

Of course, the first thing they all do is forget that they have been in the same tank for 3 days already. For 20 minutes they all swam around like it was day 1 but things are calming down again. The posturing is less aggressive and they are all still checking, like “are you still the same fish with the lights on?”

It seems weirdly like how people might behave after getting drunk at a bar and taking a stranger home for a one night stand... “You look different in the daylight... when I’m sober...”

 

[SereneAquatic]

I enjoyed meeting you two as well and look forward to learning from you and your "experiments" with fish combinations in this new tank - you're probably some of the best fish psychologists on R2R!
Please keep us updated on your success.

Thank you. I do enjoy the psychology of it. It made me remember a post on my build thread on RC forum ... the way a new clownfish acted when we introduced her to a tank with 2 mature clowns... I will paste that part here since I can’t get it to link directly... it was really fascinating.

********************************************

From 4/2018 “A new reefer, a new tank... what could go wrong?” (Reef Central)

I was recently at the local fish store, and saw a clownfish I could not resist buying. It is a mature, yellow striped maroon clownfish... and it is absolutely gorgeous.

I know maroon's have a much more aggressive nature than many other clownfish, but he's so stunning, I'm willing to take a chance. I realize that an adult clown fish at the store probably means that he was terrorizing someone else's tank and was sold back... and if that turns out to be the case I will do the same.

Since I was already going to have to lower the salinity on the nano tank in order to acclimate him, I figured what the heck, let's get a spotted hawkfish (also potentially aggressive) and a few more turbo snails to put in the nano so I could migrate the nasso snails into the display tank.

There is one concern... Penelope. Penelope, the ocellaris clown, has been in the nano since we set it up helping to keep it cycled and ready for newcomers. While she did a terrific job of this, we now had to make a decision. Sell Penelope back to the store, or try to acclimate her into the main display tank, where the bonded pair of snowflake clowns (Hide and Seek) live.

I know this can be risky, but the display is 90 gallons, and the snowflakes have only EVER taken up about 1/4 of the tank as their territory, even when we added the powder blue tang (Jagang) and the lemonpeel angel (Flash).

I think this is worth trying.

We acclimated Penelope to the DT water and then turned her loose. Within just a few minutes, the snowflakes were showing signs of aggression and traveling well beyond their normal territory to investigate. It was late in the day and I knew I couldn't watch them for very long, so we drilled holes into the specimen container to make an acclimation box for Penelope.

For the next week, she stayed in the box, and the snowflakes continued to check her out for a few more days, becoming less and less interested.

Today, I decided it was time to try again.

A few hours ago, I released Penelope back into the main tank and she immediately swam right into the heart of Hide and Seek's territory, like she knew that was their spot and she was about to set things straight.

Penelope is much smaller than the snowflakes at about an inch and a half... still just a baby, while they are adults at two and a half to almost three inches long for the female.

I thought Penelope was nuts and wondered why she didn't just steer clear and stay on the opposite side of the tank. I've watched them for the past couple of hours, and it is fascinating. Maybe Penelope knows whats up after all.

For two hours, she has slowly allowed the snowflakes to drive her away from their territory. She retreats only a little, and usually comes back in an inch or so to wait for them to chase her away again. I have only seen a few actual occasions where they made contact with her... but there is lots of charging and false starts.

Penelope is holding her own... and slowly forcing them to decide how much of the tank is REALLY theirs. She backs off little by little, and they seem to be trying to figure out how many rocks in the tank are worth fighting over. Initially I thought Penelope must have a death wish, but this really is brilliant. I realize now that if she'd gone to the furthest point in the tank from their area (like she did on the first day), they would have gone to her and continued to harass her, essentially claiming the entire tank as their own. This way, they charge and then retreat to "their spot" while she continues to challenge where the boundary lays.

I'm going to continue watching them... but I have some hope that this may actually work out OK. I think they are off to a better start than they were a week ago, when they were all the way across the tank badgering her. Smart, Penelope. Good job. Hang in there kid! You just might get half the tank to yourself.

I do find it funny that the powder blue tang (Jagang) is supposed to be the most aggressive fish in the tank but he could care less about the rest of them. He just cruises around, eating from rocks and trailing Flash. I also haven't seen any aggression between the maroon clown and the hawk fish in the nano. They seem to like each other.

If Penelope never finds her own place, we're prepared to build her a permanent 'acclimation' box in the tank for her along the back wall on the other side of the tank, but I'm hoping that won't be necessary. I was prepared to sell her back to the store, but the rest of the family seems attached to Penelope... even though we said up front that she probably will not stay. :frog:

 

[SereneAquatic]

It's time for some brainstorming. I'm going to lay out what I THINK we want, and then probably come back later and realize it's nuts. The first decision won't likely be reversible after today when we finalize our order with Custom Aquariums.

1. The new tank is 30 inches tall. The stand that it SITS on is 4 feet tall. That makes the top of this new tank almost 6 feet from the ground. We know that it will be kind of cool, and a bit imposing to stand next to because it's the same dimensions as the tank we purchased that didn't work out. We're using that stand, but ordering a different aquarium. The effect of standing by the tank and looking up into it was really fun... so we're going to keep that the same. It does present some issues though, namely for feeding, glass scraping and water changes. In the long term we are going to build some stairs and a platform along the back so we can walk up to the top for access when feeding and cleaning, and a ladder will have to do in the meantime. Water changes though... that does not sound fun. To help with this, we're asking Custom Aquariums to drill a hole on the side panel of the tank about 10 inches from the top (1/3 of the height) where we will install a bulkhead and a gated drain pipe to assist with removing water from the tank. On the inside we will have a screen that usually goes on the top of an overflow pipe to make sure fish are not accidentally sucked into the pipe. I have heard of people drilling these types of holes lower in the tank, but honestly I don't like bottom drilled tanks in general just because it feels like one more thing that could go drastically wrong. If, for some terrible reason, the bulkhead failed, leaked, whatever... the water would only drain about 1/3 of the way. If at least one powerhead sits below that water level at all times, there would still be surface agitation and hopefully keep the fish alive until we could correct it. (The return pumps would be toast, but that would happen with any tank leak and I dont feel like it's something I could avoid in either situation without additional logic on the apex for power and/or flow monitoring.) The rep at Custom Aquariums stated that this isn’t a normal request so maybe we’re off the beaten path a little. We shall see? The concept of just opening a gate valve and running the waste water into a drain or bucket is a refreshing change of pace from the over-the-edge siphons.

2. The Custom Aquariums come with an option for the H2Overflow “package”. One overflow with a single screen is capable of 1200gph. You can upgrade it to have multiple screens and handle more via the same overflow box… however we took a slightly different route. To facilitate tank flow and simulate a kind of ‘dual overflow’ situation, we’re actually installing TWO of these H2Overflows, one at each back corner of the tank, and plumbing dual return pumps that feed back up to the middle of the tank. That would mean the tank could handle 2400gph, and we can have two return pumps running as a failsafe. It’s also an additional failsafe for the overflow (4 down pipes now instead of two). Redundant redundancy LOL

3. The sump is going to be equally strange. I’m always irritated by the proximity of the refugium light (we have a ridiculously overpowered Kessil H380 on the Reefer 425 right now) and the rest of the filtration. For one, it’s always in the way. Second, it causes algae to grow inside the protein skimmer faster than it would without the light being next to it. Third… it doesn’t give me an option to have DIFFERENT things in a refugium (I’d like to grow gracilaria, which I believe needs more blue light). I suspect that by the time we are done tinkering with this tank the sump is going to be the strangest thing you’ve ever seen. I can’t stop thinking about the post that @ripvanwinkle posted in the ULM threads about how he had his sumps set up. It was very inspiring, so we’re going to take some chances with this new sump and mix things up.

I know that sumps are divided into chambers for a reason. Water moves from higher to lower locations, so sump walls are created in a way that directs that flow. Theoretically, “all” the water in the tank would “turn over” in a certain amount of time. We all know that realistically, this isn’t true. While you can move water faster or slower through the sump, there is no guarantee that you aren’t cycling the SAME water through the sump repeatedly. It’s random. So… why the preoccupation with directing flow? A certain flow is already created when the water moves into the sump from the overflow, and out of the sump via return pumps… it has a direction. What if we used marine pure blocks to separate the chambers, and essentially level out the water line in the sump? If my real goal with all the sump wall placements is to “keep chaeto from plugging up the skimmer”, “keep pods from being mechanically filtered out” or to “keep air bubbles from entering the return pump”… can’t I do that while allowing the natural flow from the overflow to the return pump through the marine pure blocks? I’ve mulled it over for about two weeks and other than a higher likelihood of water ‘staying longer’ in the sump… I can’t really find a negative. In fact… maybe that’s good? It’s like a recirculating option, without the mechanics.

I may be way out in left field on this, but I think I’d like to try it and see what happens. The idea of having an eternally flexible sump, limited only by the placement (and replacement) of marine pure blocks is tempting. Need a larger area for a fish to recover in? Shift the sump “walls” around to create a longer space. Need to separate two different kinds of macro algae? Just add more blocks. Yes, I know those blocks aren’t cheap… but what experiment ever was?

When I actually go to place that order and get smacked with sticker shock, you can laugh at me and remind me that I thought this was a good idea.

 

[SereneAquatic]

Time to update on the Grand Merge experiment. We are almost a week into the attempt at adding 4 new fish to the 90. We needed to do this for 2 reasons:

1. To find out if the dwarf angels could be put together safely in the same tank

2. To make room in the QT tanks for new arrivals being prepped for the 210

The two biggest issues were the Powder Blue hybrid, who dislikes any new fish, and the Lemonpeel who is long established.

After watching them for a week, I am happy to report that those issues have resolved.

There was an issue though, and one we did not expect. Penelope, the clownfish, was somehow injured. She has a mark down one side, and her eye is popped out. [emoji17] She is currently in the acclimation box and does not want to eat. We may have to put her in a hospital tank and treat if the swelling continues. Her bonded buddy, Poe, goes to check on her from time to time. I suspect she was attempting to defend their little hole from the coral beauty, who has no respect for boundaries, and lost the skirmish. She is too small to really do damage to the bigger fish.

The truce with all of the other fish is promising, and we can see that clearly the extra rocks and hiding places in the tank helped ease the transition. We have also been over feeding the tank a LOT. I believe that when they all migrate to the 210 things will be well and good, at least with these guys.

The two fish in QT arrived Monday from Divers Den. The White tail bristletooth tang is absolutely stunning. The pictures do not do these fish justice. I love it so much I’m considering leaving it in the reef tank when all is said and done. Both he and the razor tang are eating and seem content. Once more, I saw that the fish placed with other fish was eating and relaxed long before the one that went into a tank alone. I strongly believe there is a social aspect to acclimation... fish take their cues from other fish. When the existing fish are calm and eat the food put in the tank, new fish quickly follow suit. The razor tang, who is alone, was more nervous and took longer to eat and venture around the tank.

I tend to fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum on preventative medicating and monitoring. Where I buy the fish plays a big part. Fish we get from DD are put into the permanent QT tanks and monitored, only removed and treated when necessary. Fish from the LFS go through tank transfer and get treated with prazipro before moving to the QT. If anything appears wrong at the end of their TTM, then a separate hospital tank is thrown together.

It’s hard to know the right balance, and there are no guarantees, but we keep the fish in QT much longer than most people do. It is always risky adding a new fish in with the clowns that stay in QT, but reducing the stress for the new fish seems like a worthwhile attempt. One day it may bite us, but I have tried hard to listen to what people are doing who have no QT procedure at all. Finding a happy medium that I am ok with is the key I think.

 

[SereneAquatic]