Looking for Reassurance ;-P

[MermaidTail]

Hey all- my 6g Fluval Edge nano has been rocking and rolling - corals and fish doing great at 7 months old, and really starting to look like a little reef.

But recently, I've had some pretty annoying and unsightly green hair algae, as well as a ton of coraline building up on the glass.

I had a free morning and decided to do some pretty heavy-duty tank cleaning to remove the coraline and brush/pick off some hair algae. Because of the design/shape of the tank, this required me taking out some live-rock and corals to get to the hard-to reach places. While I was doing this, I also took the time to do some sand-stirring/cleaning as well - which is the first time I've done this in 7 months.

All this followed by a good filter-cleaning and huge water change.

Now - understandably - the tank looks pretty cloudy, and the corals are super p*ssed off.

This is my first tank and I'm learning as I go...and I know I'm probably getting worked up for nothing... but did I make a major misstep by doing such a heavy cleaning?

Give me some reassurance that it'll all be OK in the morning when things have time to adjust!

 

[Tahoe61]

If the corals are hardy types such as soft corals and some lps the tank will probably come around in a day or two.

Beware though of doing such extensive cleaning at one time. Honestly I do think you were a tad too aggressive in managing the algae problem and hopefully there will be no adverse reactions. Stirring an established sand bed is risky even if you do a complete water change..


I have been in the hobby along long time, I still have to remind myself to do one change at a time and than gauge the results.

It's always trail and error in this hobby that is just the way it is. Please let us know how the tank settles out.

 

[MermaidTail]

Thanks for the reply! Fingers crossed all will be well...I have been trying to get phosphates and nitrates in control by reducing feeding and light-period...running chemipure elite, and keeping up on water changes, but to no avail. Thought cleaning rocks/sand would help...

 

[rayn]

As Tahoe said, little bit at a time. Give your tank some time and it should come back.

Is there any chance of adding macro algae someplace to help take up the nutrients?

 

[MermaidTail]

As Tahoe said, little bit at a time. Give your tank some time and it should come back.

Is there any chance of adding macro algae someplace to help take up the nutrients?

I've read/thought about this but one of the things I love about the Fluval Edge is the sleek intentional design that looks so beautiful in my office, and I've not seen a satisfying solution involving micro algae, in terms of aesthetics.

 

[Tahoe61]

Are there too many fish to realistically keep in that size tank and feedings are contributing to elevated N/P values?
Is your water source RODI?
What about your cuc, can you add to it, make different choices?

 

[mcarroll]

Hey all- my 6g Fluval Edge nano has been rocking and rolling - corals and fish doing great at 7 months old, and really starting to look like a little reef.

But recently, I've had some pretty annoying and unsightly green hair algae, as well as a ton of coraline building up on the glass.

I had a free morning and decided to do some pretty heavy-duty tank cleaning to remove the coraline and brush/pick off some hair algae. Because of the design/shape of the tank, this required me taking out some live-rock and corals to get to the hard-to reach places. While I was doing this, I also took the time to do some sand-stirring/cleaning as well - which is the first time I've done this in 7 months.

All this followed by a good filter-cleaning and huge water change.

Now - understandably - the tank looks pretty cloudy, and the corals are super p*ssed off.

This is my first tank and I'm learning as I go...and I know I'm probably getting worked up for nothing... but did I make a major misstep by doing such a heavy cleaning?

Give me some reassurance that it'll all be OK in the morning when things have time to adjust!

All good.

Can you post a recent or current set of test results for the tank? Tank photo?

If the Edge has anything like filter pads or floss, stop using them.

Get a lux meter app (free; many are available) and measure your lights from the water surface. Tell us what you get!

For the future, I'd order something like the "LX-1010B", what I use. Better readings and safer to use around a tank of saltwater. And at under $15, delivered, still practically a no-brainer at that price.

 

[MermaidTail]

Are there too many fish to realistically keep in that size tank and feedings are contributing to elevated N/P values?
Is your water source RODI?
What about your cuc, can you add to it, make different choices?

I have one little hi-fin and one little ocellaris, but I spot feed my corals (including a sun coral) with Reef Roids. My corals love it and are doing really great, but I know it contributes to the GHA.

I use RODI from the LFS.

I think I need more members of my CUC...I have four hermits, three snails, and a peppermint shrimp.

 

[MermaidTail]

All good.

Can you post a recent or current set of test results for the tank? Tank photo?

If the Edge has anything like filter pads or floss, stop using them.

Get a lux meter app (free; many are available) and measure your lights from the water surface. Tell us what you get!

For the future, I'd order something like the "LX-1010B", what I use. Better readings and safer to use around a tank of saltwater. And at under $15, delivered, still practically a no-brainer at that price.

Before the clean-mageddon, I was at:

Salinity: 1.025
dKH: 9
Nirites: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nirtrates: 40ppm
Temp; 79-80

In my filter I run the stock sponge, chemipure elite and some ceramic biorings

 

[mcarroll]

Undoubtedly everything will be fine.

Some thoughts...

Built In Filtration
Use your judgement, but if that stock set of filters gets any degree of nasty in between cleanings, I'd discontinue use of at least the mechanical stage, which is the sponge. Or if you can, clean it more frequently.

Daily squeeze-outs under running tap water would be awesome. Don't worry about tap water getting into the tank, just dry out the sponge enough that you don't make a dripping mess getting it back to the tank and everything will be OK. No dechlorinators or anything fancy required.

More Nutrient Export
Adding a protein skimmer is an option to consider. Tune's Comline® DOC Skimmer 9001 might work. Looks like it needs about 2-3" of headroom for the skimmer cup, at minimum. It goes around 5" - 6" into the water.

Flow Can Help Or Hurt Nutrient Export
Too little of it, or too few flow-sources, or too-weak of flow can all lead to excessive nutrient accumulation in the rocks and sand.

Algae, diatoms, dinoflagellates and the rest love to scavenge these excess nutrients – it's kinda of what they do, in fact...it's their thing. The way I read one source describe it, they are "pooling ammonium" where they grow in their patch to fuel their own growth...either by way of harvesting di-nitrogen or free nitrates and converting them to ammonium. Some or all of them have enzymes right on their skin/cell walls to do this conversion.

Having enough flow, by contrast, can help suspend detritus so it can either be consumed by corals or removed by filters.

So what are you currently using for flow?

Nutrient Balance Is The Key
Can you find out the phosphate level? Get it and nitrates tested at your LFS at the same time is usually an economical option!

Nitrates that high can be a problem, but they don't have to be. Don't sweat your nitrate number too much yet.

Tell me if this makes sense:
(From: Ratio of energy and nutrient fluxes regulates symbiosis between zooxanthellae and corals by Dubinsky.)

[Summarizing] the main interactions and feedback mechanisms connecting light intensity, nutrient level, and feeding in zooxanthellate corals:

1. Under constant nutrient concentration, light intensity determines the onset of nutrient limitation; as light increases, C : N ratios exceed Redfield ratios.
2. The availability of other nutrients, mainly nitrogen, determines the fate of photo-assimilated carbon. Under high C: N ratios, most carbon goes into respiration, calcification, and excreted mucus, whereas low C : N ratios favor increases in zooxanthellae density, reduce translocation, and slow down calcification.
3. Feeding on zooplankton by the coral under low light provides carbon for metabolism. Under high light it supplies both algae and animal with nitrogen.

You have a "slightly low C:N ratio" situation. Definitely not the end of the world, just means corals probably aren't growing, or aren't growing very fast.

One additional thing to consider is that it appears that many corals stop or reduce their intake of dissolved nutrients if they are able to feed off of particulate matter/zooplankton.

So stop any kinds of feedings like that which you may be doing and your corals will most likely consume considerably more dissolved nutrients (both NO4 and PO4) in your system.

If the tank were older and you had more corals, you might not see those nitrates at all as they'd have been consumed, and this would just look like (at most) a phosphate problem.

(It's really a feeding problem, but at 6 gallons that's a bit unavoidable.)

Some folks artificially boost the C (carbon) half of the ratio to try and balance things.

I would use GFO instead. I think once PO4 comes down (around 0.20 ppm or slightly more can be OK, but must be greater than 0.00 ppm) your corals might use up the remaining nitrates in a growth spurt.

 

[skybears]

oh my goodness, that was so much good info I had to break out my acronym cheat sheets to keep up..... gosh I love this sight for learning

 

[MermaidTail]

Undoubtedly everything will be fine.

Some thoughts...

Built In Filtration
Use your judgement, but if that stock set of filters gets any degree of nasty in between cleanings, I'd discontinue use of at least the mechanical stage, which is the sponge. Or if you can, clean it more frequently.

Daily squeeze-outs under running tap water would be awesome. Don't worry about tap water getting into the tank, just dry out the sponge enough that you don't make a dripping mess getting it back to the tank and everything will be OK. No dechlorinators or anything fancy required.

More Nutrient Export
Adding a protein skimmer is an option to consider. Tune's Comline® DOC Skimmer 9001 might work. Looks like it needs about 2-3" of headroom for the skimmer cup, at minimum. It goes around 5" - 6" into the water.

Flow Can Help Or Hurt Nutrient Export
Too little of it, or too few flow-sources, or too-weak of flow can all lead to excessive nutrient accumulation in the rocks and sand.

Algae, diatoms, dinoflagellates and the rest love to scavenge these excess nutrients – it's kinda of what they do, in fact...it's their thing. The way I read one source describe it, they are "pooling ammonium" where they grow in their patch to fuel their own growth...either by way of harvesting di-nitrogen or free nitrates and converting them to ammonium. Some or all of them have enzymes right on their skin/cell walls to do this conversion.

Having enough flow, by contrast, can help suspend detritus so it can either be consumed by corals or removed by filters.

So what are you currently using for flow?

Nutrient Balance Is The Key
Can you find out the phosphate level? Get it and nitrates tested at your LFS at the same time is usually an economical option!

Nitrates that high can be a problem, but they don't have to be. Don't sweat your nitrate number too much yet.

Tell me if this makes sense:
(From: Ratio of energy and nutrient fluxes regulates symbiosis between zooxanthellae and corals by Dubinsky.)

[Summarizing] the main interactions and feedback mechanisms connecting light intensity, nutrient level, and feeding in zooxanthellate corals:

1. Under constant nutrient concentration, light intensity determines the onset of nutrient limitation; as light increases, C : N ratios exceed Redfield ratios.
2. The availability of other nutrients, mainly nitrogen, determines the fate of photo-assimilated carbon. Under high C: N ratios, most carbon goes into respiration, calcification, and excreted mucus, whereas low C : N ratios favor increases in zooxanthellae density, reduce translocation, and slow down calcification.
3. Feeding on zooplankton by the coral under low light provides carbon for metabolism. Under high light it supplies both algae and animal with nitrogen.

You have a "slightly low C:N ratio" situation. Definitely not the end of the world, just means corals probably aren't growing, or aren't growing very fast.

One additional thing to consider is that it appears that many corals stop or reduce their intake of dissolved nutrients if they are able to feed off of particulate matter/zooplankton.

So stop any kinds of feedings like that which you may be doing and your corals will most likely consume considerably more dissolved nutrients (both NO4 and PO4) in your system.

If the tank were older and you had more corals, you might not see those nitrates at all as they'd have been consumed, and this would just look like (at most) a phosphate problem.

(It's really a feeding problem, but at 6 gallons that's a bit unavoidable.)

Some folks artificially boost the C (carbon) half of the ratio to try and balance things.

I would use GFO instead. I think once PO4 comes down (around 0.20 ppm or slightly more can be OK, but must be greater than 0.00 ppm) your corals might use up the remaining nitrates in a growth spurt.

Oh, MAAAN. This is helpful. Thank you SO much for all this info.

- My filter sponge does get pretty gnarly; would you suggest not using it? If so, what should go in it's place? Or is the chemipure-elite and ceramic bio-rings enough?

GOOD NEWS: this morning, tank looking great, all my acans have opened up and are happy, my sun coral is showing polyps and my leather (which is temperamental to begin with) is starting to come out, too. Fish are happy, don't seem disturbed and the tank looks VERY CLEAN. Whew! I dodged a bullet on this one. Thanks all!