0 Phosphates But Signs Of It.

[Reeftang]

Hi All,

This still baffles my mind, so for the last 2 months i have undetectable phosphates testing with hannah ULR and RED SEA test kits, however i do have the typical sings of phosphates, my rocks are green in color and i do get a brown or green film on my glass every other day or so.

My question is, how do i know if i need to be treating my tank for phosphates, and if yes how will i monitor it?

 

[Sycoticrealm]

Phosphates are not the only reason algae happens

 

[Sycoticrealm]

Also it sounds quiet normal what you're describing. The lights we use on our coral will grow algae on the glass and rocks i dont ever stress it tbh it normal cleaning maintenance.

 

[Lasse]

How does the other life looks like (Fish, corals and other invertebrates)?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[MnFish1]

Hi All,

This still baffles my mind, so for the last 2 months i have undetectable phosphates testing with hannah ULR and RED SEA test kits, however i do have the typical sings of phosphates, my rocks are green in color and i do get a brown or green film on my glass every other day or so.

My question is, how do i know if i need to be treating my tank for phosphates, and if yes how will i monitor it?

I would say it depends on 'how green' your rocks are - ie, covered with hair algae - or just tinted in some places. But I agree with your questions - because it seems to me that many tanks have 'low PO4 readings' and 'low nitrate readings' and a lot of algae. Because the algae is taking up those chemicals as quickly as they are being produced. So the tests become 'meaningless' in a sense. The appearance of the tank becomes 'more important' IMHO.

The balance of nitrate to PO4 may also be playing a role.

 

[Reeftang]

How does the other life looks like (Fish, corals and other invertebrates)?

Sincerely Lasse

they look fine, i mean im not en expert im new to the hobby but i think they look fine.

 

[Reeftang]

I would say it depends on 'how green' your rocks are - ie, covered with hair algae - or just tinted in some places. But I agree with your questions - because it seems to me that many tanks have 'low PO4 readings' and 'low nitrate readings' and a lot of algae. Because the algae is taking up those chemicals as quickly as they are being produced. So the tests become 'meaningless' in a sense. The appearance of the tank becomes 'more important' IMHO.

The balance of nitrate to PO4 may also be playing a role.

So yeah my whole rock is green, and i do see some very short hair, like very short doesn't look like hair algae.

 

[Sycoticrealm]

Post a picture please

 

[Lasse]

Do you have a large clean up Crew - If not - get it.

In my experiences - that is more important in order to stop algae growth compared with chasing numbers of phosphate ande nitrate

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Reeftang]

Here you go

 

[Reeftang]

Do you have a large clean up Crew - If not - get it.

In my experiences - that is more important in order to stop algae growth compared with chasing numbers of phosphate ande nitrate

Sincerely Lasse

what is ideal to have? And how many?

 

[Reeftang]

one more

 

[Sycoticrealm]

Of the algae you're concerned about lol nice corals btw everything looks good to me.

 

[drawman]

I personally never was a fan of the red sea tests for NO3 and PO4 but I do like the Hanna ULR (it does have a margin of error, however). There have been bad reagents as well. If you have algae growing your PO4 is not truly zero. In some cases algae takes up the PO4 quickly giving you a falsely lower PO4 reading so keep that in mind. If corals look good I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[Reeftang]

I personally never was a fan of the red sea tests for NO3 and PO4 but I do like the Hanna ULR (it does have a margin of error, however). There have been bad reagents as well. If you have algae growing your PO4 is not truly zero. In some cases algae takes up the PO4 quickly giving you a falsely lower PO4 reading so keep that in mind. If corals look good I wouldn't worry too much about it.

ye i dont know if i like the Hanna ULR because ever time i tested i get a different number even with the same test vile but all very close to 0 like ill get 3 then 5 then 0 then 2. Bottom line if i do wanna get rid of the little algae i have how would i go about it if i cant test for it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, phosphate and nitrate can be low JUST BECAUSE algae is taking it up. I'm not saying that is the case here, but in a bad algae problem, it can be.

Rest assured that if algae is growing, it is getting many different chemicals somehow (a source of N, P, and various trace elements, for example, as well as space, light, freedom from grazing, etc.), and a huge excess of any one does not "cause" an algae problem. You must have ALL of them in sufficient quantity, and having a lot more of just one is unlikely to make it grow appreciably faster because one of the others becomes growth limiting.

 

[drawman]

ye i dont know if i like the Hanna ULR because ever time i tested i get a different number even with the same test vile but all very close to 0 like ill get 3 then 5 then 0 then 2. Bottom line if i do wanna get rid of the little algae i have how would i go about it if i cant test for it?

Probably the easiest way would be to grow competitive algae such as chaeto or utilize an ATS. Alternatively, you could run GFO but I would start at a lower than recommended dose and keep an eye on the corals throughout. Getting too low in PO4 will not be good for coral either.

 

[Sycoticrealm]

I just scrub it off and do a water change. Or if it really bad remove the rock if able and scrub it in the water change water and place it back. Reduce feedings or feed in a less messy manner.
Chaeto can sometimes help out compete the hair algae.
Carbon can help but if everything fine I wouldn't bother with it.

 

[Lasse]

what is ideal to have? And how many?

IMO you can´t have too many. I have a lot of different species of snails, hermits, crabs, shrimps and urchins. As normal polyculture is better than monoculture. What the one does not eat – the other will. Algae will always grow if you have a condition in your tank that makes your coral growth and are healthy. IMO it’s impossible to fight nuisance algae and cyanobacteria with chasing numbers of PO4 and NO3 and high numbers of these not necessarily mean algae problem. IMO – this is one of the myths that´s very difficult to beat. There is a lot of algae that we looks upon as nuisance algae who are specialist during different condition. As an example – diatoms are normally specialists when the nutrient levels (especially PO4) is very low – IMO it’s also a myth that high level of Si automatically means a diatom explosion – but in the other hand – these algae is easiest to defeat with chasing numbers (Si levels) because they are very sensitive to low numbers of Si (so are sponges also) – therefore - lower the Si levels are the normal war cry when somebody complaining of diatoms. But during normal conditions with moderate PO4 levels – they are normally outcompeted of other microalgae. IMO – you can instead say: rise your PO4 level and keep your sponges – they are good to have.

IMO – a growth of microalgae is necessary for a healthy system – if you try to defeat them with chasing numbers of macro/micro nutrients or trace compounds – you'll always find out sooner or later that whatever you're up to, you'll have your butt at the back. Because – it’s not only the algae that´s are depending of these compounds in order to survive.

Do not look at them as a problem – try the other way around – they are resources – for a lot if very interesting animals. Okay – you and your hermits will not always agree how you should exactly place your new expensive frag – but sooner or later you find a place that fit both you and your hermits - or more likely - the hermit wins

There has been studies in the wild there they took away all grazing urchins in a part of a reef – guess what happens – your right – an algae problem arise.

I use other methods also – like macro algae and oxydator – in order to defeat uncontrolled algae growth. But in this case (defeating nuisance algae) I´m not sure if its only o methods for me to feel safety or if it is effective in the real world. However – these methods has other plus (that I know of) and therefore I use them. I have had aquaria without these methods and still have a healthy aquarium with low numbers of irritating algae – but always with a large clean up crew.

IMO – its also important to introduce the clean-up crew early – because of the growth rate of algae. If they has got a too large biomass – they can be very difficult to beat with only grazers – in these circumstances you need to be wet in your hands and mechanically take them away.



Sincerely Lasse

 

[Reeftang]

Whats bothering me the most is that i had some corline spots starting to show a few months back and now they are receding and i thing its due to the rock being dark green. Is there any way that the green in the rock alone is eating up all the phosphates and thats why its undetectable? I would love to have some corline growing is there any way i can introduce some more corline to compete with the green rock or the green will always win?