14 Day Guarantee Policy Encourages Bad Husbandry

[heifinator]

I wanted to share a story about a recent experience with LA over the last few weeks.

I ordered a DD coral (indo torch) on September ~16th which was delivered on the ~18th. When the coral arrived it was beat up from shipping (some torn tissue) but was in a condition I hoped it would be able to recover from.

My big mistake was not contacting LA at this point, apparently. Instead I attempted to monitor the coral within my guarantee period. The tank is full of euphyllia that are doing well so I hoped it would work out ok!

About a week later (~6-8 days into guarantee period) I noticed what appeared to be brown jelly disease on one of the two small heads of the coral. I attempted to treat for brown jelly and tried to save the second head. At this point I contacted LA with pictures of the brown jelly and dead/dying head. They responded a day or two later asking for better pictures, which were hard to obtain being as the coral was still alive.

I was able to get the pictures and everything to them before the guarantee expired but because 1 head was still alive I was unable to get an refund on the item. It was technically listed as "one head" even though it had two and therefore, no refund.

The day after the 14 day period the second head finally gave out and died. I contacted LA and they were unable to give me a credit due to the 14 day period elapsing.

I asked the question: "If I had just pulled the coral out of the water the day before the warranty ended, killed it and sent you a picture would I have gotten a refund?" The answer was: "Yes in that case you would have gotten a refund under the 14-day guarantee."

I approached the subject of how this encourages bad husbandry and for hobbyists to "give up" on sick specimens to ensure a refund. She had no comment really. I thanked her for her time and decided to post the story here!

I am curious as to what R2R thinks about this? It seems to me it is a badly written policy? But maybe I'm just being a salty person who lost their expensive coral and money

Everything else from the order is doing great, so no hate to LA, always had a good experience with them. I just think the way the policy is written leaves something to be desired!

 

[Perthegallon]

No its the company encouraging bad habits not the policy the policy is great for companys that will actually are normal

 

[Reefing_addiction]

It seems maybe extending that period for customers who obviously lost a coral due to no fault of their own would be the thing to do.

 

[Perthegallon]

It seems maybe extending that period for customers who obviously lost a coral due to no fault of their own would be the thing to do.

I know for me that’s why I trust ordering online

 

[Thaxxx]

Most don't do 14 day on corals. Most just guarentee no DOA.
I think a 14 day policy is very generous

 

[heifinator]

Most don't do 14 day on corals. Most just guarentee no DOA.
I think a 14 day policy is very generous

As an alternative view point, most vendors if you tell them a few days in you have a sick coral will take care of you. At least that has been my experience with countless other smaller vendors over the past decade I've been in the hobby.

 

[Tankkeepers]

I will state that I think the 14day policy encurages both good and bad habbits depending on the person as you wouldnt want to lose money on a pricy coral etc if you knew it was a gonner from shipping but still technically alive its all about the person using the garentee not the garentee itself bad will be bad while good will be good

 

[heifinator]

I will state that I think the 14day policy encurages both good and bad habbits depending on the person as you wouldnt want to lose money on a pricy coral etc if you knew it was a gonner from shipping but still technically alive its all about the person using the garentee not the garentee itself bad will be bad while good will be good

Even if the guarantee is "arrive alive" if a company is rigid with that policy it would encourage hobbyists to "finish off" sick or damaged corals to ensure a refund if they believe it will die in short order.

I think dyerrm is right when he says that extending a policy or otherwise being "flexible" is the best way to prevent this. LA is anything but flexible. Ultimately the livestock guarantees are in place to ensure you receive healthy livestock and not to protect you from your own bad husbandry. This doesn't work in this way when the policies are super rigid. Instead they are encouraging bad husbandry...

In my particular case I would have been better off to have killed that coral, taken the skeleton, photographed it and got a refund, then at a later date buy the same coral again...

Instead I attempted to save what was left and am out $200+ dollars. Lesson learned I suppose!

 

[Tankkeepers]

Your still not getting my point I guess as a good person will try and save it regardless of the money spent a bad person will kill it to ensure a refund aka bad will do bad good will do good it all depends on the person not the guarantee the guarantee is only supposed to alleviate what happens in shipping all to often the company should of giving you a refund as soon as you sent the pics thats their fault and should never of told you what they did aka I would not shop there ever again

 

[heifinator]

That logis is pretty flawed.

If the policy is to alleviate what happens in shipping then it should just be a DOA policy. It isn't, that makes it a policy issue.

If it was a fish sure, I could see your argument, that is a living creature with a consciousness.

That being said, if I get a coral with brown jelly disease due to damage while shipping (which is usually fatal) and I can either A) kill it and get a refund, or B) have a LOW percentage chance to save it days or weeks after my guarantee wears out, otherwise I'm out $200 bucks. I'm not sure that choosing 'B' makes that person bad.

I indicated to LA about 5 days into my guarantee period the coral was dying and had been damaged in shipping somewhat. They told me to monitor the situation and update them. I did that, and when it died outside the guarantee they told me there was nothing they could do. That is a crappy policy.

I'll put it this way, if the policy is there to guarantee shipping isn't DOA, then why is it 14 days? Here is how the policy works now.

1. Item DOA? -Refund
2. Coral dies in my tank after a week because its a sewer? -Refund
3. Coral is shipped damaged and I boil the tissue off to speed up its almost certain death? -Refund
4. Coral is shipped damaged and I try to save it over the course of two weeks? -No Refund

Point blank, that policy encourages hobbyists to take the easy road to a refund.

 

[Tankkeepers]

If it was a fish sure, I could see your argument, that is a living creature with a consciousness.


This thinking is very flawed and again your argument does not stand as stated bad people will do bad thing and good people will do good thing it all depends on the person and what they are willing to do for money period

 

[heifinator]

You haven't really provided any logic to your thinking other than "very flawed" and "does not stand".

But, I put this here for everyone, not just those that agree with me, so, agree to disagree. In my opinion their policy creates situations that encourage consumers to make bad husbandry decisions. Whether they should do it or not is not really the argument. It was simply that their policy encourages it financially.

 

[Tankkeepers]

No one and nothing can make a person do anything if they are going to do somthing they will

 

[Tankkeepers]

The policy could be only doa with no 14 day guarantee and people will still kill it as soon as they get it just to get thier money back so what your saying is there should be no policy then this encurages sellers to ship dead things and say it was alive when I shipped it no matter what good will do good bad will do bad it has nothing to do with the policy in place and everything to do with the person using the policy

 

[Tankkeepers]

Corals live eat breath grow and think just like every single other living thing on the planet mabey not in the complexity we do or others do but they do otherwise they would not know when to do these things and simply die

 

[Tankkeepers]

All your brain is is a signal interpuiter they just have other ways to interpret these signals

 

[heifinator]

I mean, you are so off topic from my original argument I'm not sure what to say in response.

LA shipped me a damaged coral, it took over 2 weeks to die and therefore I'm out the cost of the item. That encourages people to kill off their damaged livestock, regardless of what that makes of the person, it encourages it financially.

This isn't an ethical debate. Obviously there are considerations on if this is a morally acceptable practice, not my argument.

My argument is that the policy by nature encourages financially, hobbyists to finish off dying livestock.

None of your points counter that fact. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Tankkeepers]

Sure it does as stated several times nothing can make a person do anything they are not already willing to do aka kill off somthing in order to get money rather then trying to save it knowing they might lose the money

Then you said
If it was a fish sure, I could see your argument, that is a living creature with a consciousness.

This is invalid as stated above

The policy is not the problem people are the problem and how they use the policy

 

[PicassoClown04]

I do think that the 14 day guarantee policy on corals is pretty generous of LA, however the fact that it was damaged during shipping and had BJD that was not given to it by one of your other corals is sketchy.

Since you notified them about the issues long before your 14 day policy was up, I feel that you were a good candidate for an extended warranty on your torch.

Did the other head on the torch survive? I may have misinterpreted something somewhere, but at this point I believe only the one head is dead when there were two?

 

[Thaxxx]

They could of done more to save a customer.
You notified them on day 5 of the corals issues.
It tells me, they are tighting their policy. Not in writing but in practice.