3 fish concerns (mainly Coral Beauty Angel)

[kyley]

Hello,
I've had my Coral Beauty for about 5 months now (quarantined first). It looks like it's lost some tissue from the front of its face. Mouth almost looks bloody. I think it's been like this for a week or two. Thoughts on what this is and how to treat it? HLLE? Do angels get that? Is it possible to do in-tank? See pics below. The other fish I'm not as concerned about, but thought I'd ask about them too.

My McCosker's Flasher Wrasse has been in there the same amount of time (5 months, also quarantined) and is fine.

I also have a clown fish that's been in the tank for almost 10 years. He's always had some amount of these black markings (almost look like burns), but this seems to be the most he's had by far. Any idea what they are?

And last, my Royal Gramma Basslet has been in there about 8 or 9 years. It's mostly fine, but it looks like there's a small amount of tissue loss (whiteish area) on top of her head as well? I think this has been like this for quite some time as well.

All fish act fine and eat like pigs. They generally get along, but the clown is a bully. Never seen him chase the Angelfish though - just the wrasse. These are all in my 65 gallon Red Sea Max which has been established for 10 years now. I am upgrading to a 120g (established for 6 months now and has 3 tangs in it) and want to transfer these 4 fish all at once. But I don't want to if they are sick and especially if it's something that could affect my other fish.

So that's the other key question - if it's just a water quality issue from carbon or something, is it safe to go ahead and transfer the fish? Thanks!
--Kyle

 

[Flippers4pups]

While in QT, did you treat the CB with anything? Did you freshwater dip it?

 

[kyley]

No freshwater dip. I did PraziPro and Tank Transfer Method though. I think I might have done Ich at first before I started TTM, but I don't remember for sure if that was with this fish.

 

[kyley]

Bump. Anyone?

BTW... There are no white spots or anything on the fish - that's just stuff floating in the tank in front of the fish.

 

[Stege_saurus]

Bump. Anyone?

BTW... There are no white spots or anything on the fish - that's just stuff floating in the tank in front of the fish.

I would do another round of QT before you transfer to the new tank. Just to be safe, I would repeat whatever your procedure is, then wait an additional week before transferring.

CBA- possibly HLLE, I've heard they can get it but haven't experienced it myself with an angel. My yellow Tang had it when I first got him, now he doesn't have it as bad. Just provide a nutritious diet and it should come back.

Gramma- could just be declining health due to age, hard to tell

Clown- my snowflake gets these black spots once in awhile. I believe they are some sort of bruising because I did remove her from the DT for a couple weeks and it went away.

All in all, keep monitoring and be cautious. If anything appears unusual follow your protocol for treatment methods. Hope this helps!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks much to me like Vitamin deficiency. What are you feeding your fish.
I would look into ocean nutrition Pygmy angel formula. LRS foo, Spirulina brine shrimp and Ocean nutrition Formula 2. Add vitamins 2x a week such as Selcon and Garlic extract in food 1-2X per week

 

[kyley]

I'm feeding LRS Reef Frenzy Nano frozen food and Prime Reef Flakes (each about half the time). I use Vita-Chem, but have run out. I have used Selcon in the past as well. I'll get some more of that too.

Denton, you said to follow my protocol for treatment methods, but I don't know what I'm treating or how to treat (the CB).

I'm not too worried about the clown. Fish is 9 years old and has always had some of those. Maybe he needs an anemone. Thanks,
--Kyle

 

[Stege_saurus]

I'm feeding LRS Reef Frenzy Nano frozen food and Prime Reef Flakes (each about half the time). I use Vita-Chem, but have run out. I have used Selcon in the past as well. I'll get some more of that too.

Denton, you said to follow my protocol for treatment methods, but I don't know what I'm treating or how to treat (the CB).

I'm not too worried about the clown. Fish is 9 years old and has always had some of those. Maybe he needs an anemone. Thanks,
--Kyle

What I mean by that is since it's tough to diagnose, treat it as if it had Ich, velvet, flukes, or any of the sort. Take your time with it, it may not have anything at all. It could be a lymphocyst, which should go away on its own with time. You may want to check out the fish disease pictorial index. I'll post a link to it.

 

[Stege_saurus]

Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide

Pictorial Guide to Marine Fish Diseases Use this guide to find a picture that most closely matches your fish's symptoms. Click the link, if available for more detailed information on the disease and how to treat it. Ich (Cryptocaryon Irritans) One of the most well-known parasites in the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[kyley]

What I mean by that is since it's tough to diagnose, treat it as if it had Ich, velvet, flukes, or any of the sort. Take your time with it, it may not have anything at all. It could be a lymphocyst, which should go away on its own with time. You may want to check out the fish disease pictorial index. I'll post a link to it.

Great, thanks. I'm tempted to just move it to the new DT with the hopes that cleaner water without carbob/GFO may help it heal. With lymphocyst and HLLE being the most likely issues (I have carbon in the current tank, but not in the newer one), it may make the most sense to just move the fish. I don't want to risk the health of my tangs in that tank, but it doesn't seem like these are anything like a parasite that could spread to them. Thanks,
--Kyle

 

[Stege_saurus]

Great, thanks. I'm tempted to just move it to the new DT with the hopes that cleaner water without carbob/GFO may help it heal. With lymphocyst and HLLE being the most likely issues (I have carbon in the current tank, but not in the newer one), it may make the most sense to just move the fish. I don't want to risk the health of my tangs in that tank, but it doesn't seem like these are anything like a parasite that could spread to them. Thanks,
--Kyle

I hope everything works out good!

 

[Brew12]

My initial 2 thoughts were that it is nutrition related or that it is a water quality issue.

Your feeding schedule looks pretty good so I doubt nutrition is playing a role. This pretty much leaves water quality, unless a parasite has made it through your system.
I would actually recommend running more carbon in this system. It should help with water quality as long as you don't get powdered carbon in the system. Small amounts won't hurt but you do want to minimize dust. You also want to try and prevent the carbon from rubbing against itself by packing it tightly.

The clown looks like hyper-melanoma to me. Odd without a host anemone but not unheard of. They are also known to rub against LPS/Soft corals that can cause the same markings. Black markings can also be "Black Ich" but Turbellarians present a bit differently so I don't have too much concern with this fish.

None of the other fish are presenting symptoms of any of the usual parasites we worry about. The one easy check would be a FW dip for flukes. Flukes tend to be difficult to see but can cause other health issues to arise, similar to poor water quality. I'd do a FW dip on the angel if you can catch him fairly easily. Dwarf angels tend to hold up very well to FW dips and one fish is all you need to check after this long together.

 

[kyley]

Great, thanks for all the tips! I might try a FW dip just in case, then transfer. I need to get a good fish trap as all 4 fish are going to be tricky to catch! Thanks,
--Kyle

 

[kyley]

Update, 4 months later...
All 3 fish are in the same condition. Eating / acting fine, but look the same (not worse though). I'm not too worried about the Clown or Royal Gramma Basslet, but the Coral Beauty Angelfish (as before) is more concerning (at least, it looks bad).

Now I'm finally ready to move them into a quarantine tank and treat the 3 fish there. Any suggestions on medications that might be worth trying to help the Coral Beauty (considering we don't really know what it is) while in the quarantine tank? And that wouldn't be very risky? Here are a few that I happen to have:
Seachem MetroPlex (metronidazole)
Seachem Focus
PraziPro
Formalin MS
Methylene Blue

Expired Meds:
API Stress Coat+ (w/ Aloe Vera; "replaces slime coata, reduces electrolyte loss, removes ammonia [and chlorine and chloramine]")
Furan-2 (Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone) - maybe helpful for the skin lesions??
Microbe-Lift Herbtana (natural expellant for parasites)
Seachem KanaPlex (kanamycin) (long expired)
Pimafix Anti-Fungal (long expired, but unopened)
Jungle Anti-Parasite Medicated Fish Food (Praziquantel) (long expired)
De-Los (Trichlorphon) from National Fish Pharmaceuticals (expired)
Paracide - X (Di-N-Butyl Tin Oxide and Magnesium Oxide) food additive
from National Fish Pharmaceuticals (expired)
Paracide - D (Di-N-Butyl Tin Oxide) food additive from National Fish Pharmaceuticals (expired)

I'm not sure if I mentioned before, but NO3 and PO4 and at 0 in this tank. There may be other issues with water quality of course, but those main 2 are fine. And I feed LRS frozen food and Prime Reef Flakes, always using Selcon and Vita-Chem when I feed the frozen food. So nutrition shouldn't be the issue. I use carbon and GFO in this tank in low-moderate quantities. Thanks,
--Kyle