370ml Ca + Alk per day can't be right

[135reef]

I can't get my head wrapped around the alk/ca consumption. Here's the scenario...

New build that has been wet since October
200g total volume (160 display)
Dry rock that had been cycling in brute 3mo
Bare bottom
Instant Ocean RC
80w UV
Automated daily water changes (2g/day)
Ca = 424
Alk = 7.8-8.0
Mg = 1460
Temp 78.5

I had a precipitate storm with heavy build-up on the heaters and pumps in January, but I added a power head directed at the drip point for the Ca/Alk and it's been clear since. ICP test looked good. Slight addition called out for Iodine and Alk.

Heavy unlimited water flow (6x MP40s)
3ea Radion XR30 G4 Pros
4ea 54w T5s
200par at the floor (Apogee SQ-420)
375par at the top of the rock (Apogee SQ-420)

The Alk/Ca/Mg numbers are holding steady and Ca/Alk are balanced at 360-370ml/day via Trident, Hanna(Alk), RedSea(Ca) and AquaForest(Mg). A while back, I cut the Ca/Alk in half and the number dove hard. I have a few SPS frags, but they are struggling.

No Coraline, minimal algae, clear the glass weekly.

Blue Jaw Trigger
Powder Brown Tang
2 Clowns
6 Anthias

It feels completely unreasonable that I'm burning 15ml of BRS 2-part per hour. With the exception of the corals, the tank is solid. Randy made a recent reference that this much Alk/Ca would be highly unusual.

How do I get this under control? What could explain the balanced consumption but at >10x what seems normal. My current thinking is turn off all dosing, do a couple large water changes (40g x 2) and see where things settle out.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Curious on this gunna follow good luck

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Fts? Id like to see your.coral. it might be time to go to a cal reactor or supplement with kalk. Something.
D

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

I would think a 200g dt would have to have decent amount of coral to suck up that muck alk/cal.
D

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

160*
D

 

[stephj03]

You're still precipitating out somehow. That's what I would guess.

 

[Sabellafella]

I can't get my head wrapped around the alk/ca consumption. Here's the scenario...

New build that has been wet since October
200g total volume (160 display)
Dry rock that had been cycling in brute 3mo
Bare bottom
Instant Ocean RC
80w UV
Automated daily water changes (2g/day)
Ca = 424
Alk = 7.8-8.0
Mg = 1460
Temp 78.5

I had a precipitate storm with heavy build-up on the heaters and pumps in January, but I added a power head directed at the drip point for the Ca/Alk and it's been clear since. ICP test looked good. Slight addition called out for Iodine and Alk.

Heavy unlimited water flow (6x MP40s)
3ea Radion XR30 G4 Pros
4ea 54w T5s
200par at the floor (Apogee SQ-420)
375par at the top of the rock (Apogee SQ-420)

The Alk/Ca/Mg numbers are holding steady and Ca/Alk are balanced at 360-370ml/day via Trident, Hanna(Alk), RedSea(Ca) and AquaForest(Mg). A while back, I cut the Ca/Alk in half and the number dove hard. I have a few SPS frags, but they are struggling.

No Coraline, minimal algae, clear the glass weekly.

Blue Jaw Trigger
Powder Brown Tang
2 Clowns
6 Anthias

It feels completely unreasonable that I'm burning 15ml of BRS 2-part per hour. With the exception of the corals, the tank is solid. Randy made a recent reference that this much Alk/Ca would be highly unusual.

How do I get this under control? What could explain the balanced consumption but at >10x what seems normal. My current thinking is turn off all dosing, do a couple large water changes (40g x 2) and see where things settle out.

Hey do you have a photo of your tank?

Brs 2part isn't as concentrated as let's say esv or triton. But could possibly be your consumption. I know the tank is new but is there a decent amount of stoneys in there?

 

[stephj03]

Are you able to dose Ca and Alk at separate times to different places on the tank?

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Sabellafella knows sticks^^^
D

 

[arking_mark]

I'm dosing 3600ml of Kalk per day for a 110gal tank, or the equivalent of about 1dKH. I'm not sure what concentration your mixing brs 2-part to...but if it's 10x as potent as kalk, 360ml might just be about .5dKH for a 200gal tank and well within reasonable tank consumption.

 

[Sabellafella]

Sabellafella knows sticks^^^
D

I have an absolute insane amount of consumption daily. At this point I'd go by how much dkh someone would be using daily, and then see if it's likely or very unlikely

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

LOL i bet u do bro. Crazy colors.
D

 

[arking_mark]

I'm dosing 3600ml of Kalk per day for a 110gal tank, or the equivalent of about 1dKH. I'm not sure what concentration your mixing brs 2-part to...but if it's 10x as potent as kalk, 360ml might just be about .5dKH for a 200gal tank and well within reasonable tank consumption.

Can you provide the BRS 2-part recipe you are using? How much are you mixing in how much RODI?

 

[Sabellafella]

I'm lost on the math but i know usually 7 grams of soda ash with 100 gallon system is around 1kh so 14 grams per day is 1dkh on a 200 gallon system. I'll have to find the concentration on the pre mixed(ml per gallon), do you guys know?

If its around there I wouldn't doubt it. I believe there's other organisms that use alkalinity then just some corals. Especially when the tank is fairy new with adding fish

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Idk i made up 1 gal at a time. Think i used 4-6 scoops brs soda ash. Cant remember the measure cup size i used and im at work.
D

 

[blasterman]

A "few" SPS frags in a 200gal won't consume enough calcium in a month to show up on most test kits. Alk can be consumed by all kinds of things, but calcium uptake has pretty limited culprits in terms of fixation.

Going to throw something at the wall here...... I use Instant Ocean and I've never had it mix higher than 380 or so in terms of calcium. That means with the automated water changes you are constantly removing calcium and alk via water changes and then dosing to bring it back up. Your calcium is simply going down the drain. Since Instant Ocean and RC tend to vary might be a good time to test the fresh salt mix and verify.

If I may now be blunt, a 200gal with a few SPS frags doesn't require dosing. The fact we are dosing and SPS isn't doing well kind of proves my point. Do we want to grow coral, or waste a lot of time testing water and playing with dosing pumps?

 

[AJsReef]

No Coraline, minimal algae, clear the glass weekly.

Answers the question I would have, I run an almost identical system equipment wise and with heavy coralline and 20 or so frags I use 80ml BRS 2 part daily which is ~.25dKH a day

 

[Sabellafella]

A "few" SPS frags in a 200gal won't consume enough calcium in a month to show up on most test kits. Alk can be consumed by all kinds of things, but calcium uptake has pretty limited culprits in terms of fixation.

Going to throw something at the wall here...... I use Instant Ocean and I've never had it mix higher than 380 or so in terms of calcium. That means with the automated water changes you are constantly removing calcium and alk via water changes and then dosing to bring it back up. Your calcium is simply going down the drain. Since Instant Ocean and RC tend to vary might be a good time to test the fresh salt mix and verify.

If I may now be blunt, a 200gal with a few SPS frags doesn't require dosing. The fact we are dosing and SPS isn't doing well kind of proves my point. Do we want to grow coral, or waste a lot of time testing water and playing with dosing pumps?

Usually the case but 1 percent addition of alk (water change water witch io is higher) during a daily water change isn't going to make or break 370 ml daily. But what your saying 9 times out of 10 is usually the issue people run into with trying to figure out dosing with water changes


The best one could do, is not dose for 3 days. Test, and use the two part calculator to figure out the per day usage via dkh. Then can repeat that again to fine tune(since test kits barely can be that stable with results) .

If you do water changes weekly or daily, with just some math you can figure out your alk addition with water changes, and you'd just remove that off your dosing pump per week. I happen to use kalk 2 part and a calcium reactor. I only now make changes to my dosing from fragging/ adding/taking out corals. Usually that's how I go about it, works pretty well for me.

 

[arking_mark]

Can you provide the BRS 2-part recipe you are using? How much are you mixing in how much RODI?

@135reef I'm guessing that 360ml was a reasonable dose?

 

[135reef]

I would think a 200g dt would have to have decent amount of coral to suck up that muck alk/cal.
D

Fully agree. No Coraline and only a few frags which is why I was confused. Only thing could be the dry cycled rock.

You're still precipitating out somehow. That's what I would guess.

Could be. We have heavy circulation in our sump. No film in the tank, but light film in the stock tank sump.

Hey do you have a photo of your tank?

Brs 2part isn't as concentrated as let's say esv or triton. But could possibly be your consumption. I know the tank is new but is there a decent amount of stoneys in there?

No... Very few SPS frags right now,. Couple of plating pieces about 4" dia.

Are you able to dose Ca and Alk at separate times to different places on the tank?

I am. I have them offset now, but I can separate them geographically in the sump as well. I have a power head blowing directly at the surface of the water where the dosing drips into the sump.

A "few" SPS frags in a 200gal won't consume enough calcium in a month to show up on most test kits. Alk can be consumed by all kinds of things, but calcium uptake has pretty limited culprits in terms of fixation.

Going to throw something at the wall here...... I use Instant Ocean and I've never had it mix higher than 380 or so in terms of calcium. That means with the automated water changes you are constantly removing calcium and alk via water changes and then dosing to bring it back up. Your calcium is simply going down the drain. Since Instant Ocean and RC tend to vary might be a good time to test the fresh salt mix and verify.

If I may now be blunt, a 200gal with a few SPS frags doesn't require dosing. The fact we are dosing and SPS isn't doing well kind of proves my point. Do we want to grow coral, or waste a lot of time testing water and playing with dosing pumps?

Blunt is good and tough love works too! Too much invested and I have a vision for what we want, and this isn't it. I'll admit I'm not the expert which is why I'm here to learn from the experts.

Answers to a few questions;
BRS Ca = Calcium Chloride mixed 5g at a time to directions of 2-1/2 cups/gallon w/RO
BRS Alk = Soda Ash mixed 5g at a time to directions of 2-1/3 cups/gallon w/RO

Auto water change
Ca = >480 (Red Sea)
Alk = 8.62 (Hanna)

Next steps;
1 - Turn off water changes
2 - Turn off dosing
3 - Monitor Alk/Ca/Mg 3-5 days

Thanks for the input guys! I greatly appreciate the help...

Doug