40 gallon build questions

[Scott Ulrich]

Hi everyone!

I have 3 freshwater tanks (125g mbuna, 60g Angel/cory cats, and 20g African Clawed frog), but never done saltwater.

I would like to start this as a fowlr and in maybe 6 months when established start corals.

I have the following:
40 gallon breeder tank
50g/day, 4 stage ro/di unit
Heater
40 lbs Fiji pink live sand
40 lbs base rock (reef saver)
2 x 456 koralia nano powerheads
Nicrew led (will upgrade later when I start corals)

My possible stocking list (suggestions welcome):
2 x ocellaris clownfish
Orchid dottyback
Goby/pistol shrimp combo
Some sort of blenny
Cleaner shrimp

1. I don't have room underneath for a sump, but I could do a side-by-side 20 gallon display refugium. Raised up a few inches to gravity feed into the main. Would it be needed for that stocking list?

2. I don't have a skimmer, but which one I would get would depend on whether or not I do the 20g refugium. I was thinking maybe the koralia slim skim, but am open to suggestions. I also am including a picture of a possible refugium design, since it would be on display I would have the skimmer and macro in the back with the refugium all across the front (maybe with sand and some cuc inverts?)

I appreciate all the help and advice! Planning to start cycling/curing the rock this weekend.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[Diesel]

Great game plan and welcome to the salty side of the aquarium hobby.
Skimmers for that kind of tank come in all sorts of possibilities and budgets.
Imo each do a great job on that 40B.
One thing I’m going to recommend is consider a sump.
It might require some DIY for a new stand but you better off long term, believe me.

 

[Scott Ulrich]

Thanks for the suggestion! Would there be any advantages to an under cabinet sump vs having it to the side? I realize that the display water level would be changing, but I figure I can top off daily so maybe not an issue.

I have storage cabinets under the tank right now so hate to lose that

 

[Diesel]

A sump can be the heart of the your DT.
All your equipment can be hidden in the sump, return pump, heater, skimmer, ATO, probes even if you plan right a refugium and later in the game dosing equipment

 

[AdamNC]

You will definitely want a sump. So much easier to work with equipment. I went 4 years with all hob equipment. I made it work but was definitely more work than my new tank with a sump.

 

[Retro Reefer]

Welcome to R2R As other have pointed out a sump would be beneficial

 

[Gareth elliott]

Welcome to the salty side!

I found the nano koralias rather underpowered. With a 40b even fowlr this might not be enough flow to keep excess food suspended. And might have some low flow areas that cyano gets a foothold.

I have the largest nano pump in my 55g planted. Its just enough flow to direct co2 across the tank, and causes my plants to wave gently.

 

[Scott Ulrich]

Thanks Adam and retro, appreciate the feedback! If the sump is to the side raised up a few inches (gravity fed into main display) and not under its that going to make a difference? The tank is going to be in a corner and the current stand is a little over 5' so there is room for both tanks. I could build a stand but then I wouldn't have a place for the storage cabinets and the wife probably would not be so happy If you are concerned about aesthetics, I could always put a door on to cover it up. Long term maybe I can build a stand for a 125 gallon and use this40g as the sump for that

Thanks, Gareth, for the feedback on the powerheads. I also have a koralia evo (550-600gph) it's a backup to the one on my 125g tank. I could use that one as well if you think that would be enough?

 

[Scott Ulrich]

Was thinking about this and I look at this as a start into salt water.... Take it slow with a lightly stocked tank, next year try corals and some where down the line maybe upgrade it to a larger size aquarium. Just thinking of I'm going to send the time building a stand I would rather go that route down the line for a bigger tank...

 

[Retro Reefer]

Thanks Adam and retro, appreciate the feedback! If the sump is to the side raised up a few inches (gravity fed into main display) and not under its that going to make a difference? The tank is going to be in a corner and the current stand is a little over 5' so there is room for both tanks. I could build a stand but then I wouldn't have a place for the storage cabinets and the wife probably would not be so happy If you are concerned about aesthetics, I could always put a door on to cover it up. Long term maybe I can build a stand for a 125 gallon and use this40g as the sump for that

Thanks, Gareth, for the feedback on the powerheads. I also have a koralia evo (550-600gph) it's a backup to the one on my 125g tank. I could use that one as well if you think that would be enough?

You really need to have your sump lower than the tank otherwise your going to need to pump water from your display into your sump which is not a good idea... other than being a little small the 40 breeder makes just about the perfect reef tank especially for the beginner, the depth and height are ideal so I would focus on it and see how you do before jumping into a 125.

I’m doing a 40 breeder on the cheap if you want to check it out..

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-big-beautiful-budget-breeder-build.405791/

 

[Scott Ulrich]

Thanks Retro, I read through your build, which is similar to what I'm looking to do, so very helpful.

Out of curiosity, what's bad about pumping from the display into the sump? As far as I can tell, the negatives would be that 1. the display water level will change instead of the sump and 2. The pump is another item in the main tank for those who prefer the totally clean look. I figure all my freshwater tanks have heaters and filter tubes showing in them so I'm not to worried about the "clutter" Is there anything else I'm missing?

I suppose that I could raise the main tank instead, maybe 4-6" and use the overflow box like you have to drain into the sump next to the display - would that be enough clearance if it were to drop directly into the sump? I really don't have any room behind the aquarium for an overflow, so it would have to be to the side regardless.

Thanks again!

 

[Scott Ulrich]

Instead of raising the tank, I could just get a 15 g instead of 20 g sump. At 12" height that would be a 4" drop. Would be enough of a drop for the overflow?

 

[Retro Reefer]

Thanks Retro, I read through your build, which is similar to what I'm looking to do, so very helpful.

Out of curiosity, what's bad about pumping from the display into the sump? As far as I can tell, the negatives would be that 1. the display water level will change instead of the sump and 2. The pump is another item in the main tank for those who prefer the totally clean look. I figure all my freshwater tanks have heaters and filter tubes showing in them so I'm not to worried about the "clutter" Is there anything else I'm missing?

I suppose that I could raise the main tank instead, maybe 4-6" and use the overflow box like you have to drain into the sump next to the display - would that be enough clearance if it were to drop directly into the sump? I really don't have any room behind the aquarium for an overflow, so it would have to be to the side regardless.

Thanks again!

with the return pump in your reef your not going to get the benefits of surface skimming and gas exchange provided by a overflow and your pump would need frequent cleanings from directly sucking up all that crud in your tank, also some of your tanks inhabitants may get sucked into the pump and damaged or killed.. if you want to sit sump next to tank you would need to drill your tank the HOB style overflows drain outlets will be to low to use with a sump sitting next to it.

 

[Scott Ulrich]

Thanks for the help, you are giving me too many ideas I have been thinking more about these overflows, I like the idea of not having to deal with drilling the tank.

The cpr cs50 overflow (rated 300 gph up to 60g) is shallower and has a 7.25" depth from the tank edge... If the 15g (12" height) is 4" lower than the 40g (16" height), the water level on the 15g would just have to be 3.25" below the lid, or below 8.75". That should be an adequate water level for a sump, no? Or I could raise the tank and inch our two if needed as well.

 

[Retro Reefer]

CPR overflows are dependent on a separate dedicated pump to keep them primed, they seem to be good quality and a lot of people use them but keeping up with the priming pump is not something I would want to deal with.

 

[Scott Ulrich]

RetroReffer, Sorry to hear about your leak ugh.

Another overflow question. Appreciate all your experience with them! The eshopps nano says 20g/200gph, but I'm wondering if that would be ok for a 40g. It is only 8" drop so it would leave 8" max water level in the sump... I could raise the 40 up on 2×4s to add another 1.5" if needed. And if it is too slow I could add a second overflow.

Thoughts?

 

[Scott Ulrich]

Went ahead and purchased the eshopps nano overflow... Seems like lower flow sump it's the "in" thing anyway. Also added a jebao dc 320 hob return pump. Will pick up the 15 g from petco while the dollar per gallon is still going on

Now just need to find a skimmer

 

[Retro Reefer]

The nano will work but down the line you may want to add another, two of them would be better and give you a fail safe if one of them loses syphon.. I’m at about 280 GPH turn over on my 40 using the pf300 which is rated at 300 gph.

 

[Ari_Ball]

If you don't have tangs and you don't feed fish too much, you can do in tank skimmer, even have some algae in your main tank.

 

[Scott Ulrich]

I decided to get a 20 g tall for a sump, I added a picture, as you can see it sits right next to the 40. The overflow is 8" and goes directly into the 20g sump so max level for sump is half full (8"), wiich seems fine for most skimmers. Thinking I will put just 1 baffle in the sump, to keep level in that chamber constant for the skimmer.

I have the csa-301 skimmer in my Amazon cart ($99), so if anyone has any warnings on that, please let me know before I buy it

I set up my ro/di unit today and made 15 gallons of water... Filling starts tomorrow!

Ari, no tangs, I don't think this tank is big enough...

Thanks,
Scott