Forty-Two
Well-Known Member
Hi there,
Ive decided to open a thread as I think things are starting to come together enough to indicate a build *might* actually happen at some point in the next year or so.
A little background:
I kept a freshwater aquarium for a number of years when I was younger. I had numerous different types of fish and different configurations etc. At one point in the late 80's/early 90's I convinced my parents to buy me a fluval HOB filter for my 20G so that I could keep a saltwater aquarium instead. The tank was moderately successful for all of about 6-8 months after which time my anemone died, followed by the clowns (I only had 1 anemone and 2 clowns in the tank). No internet made keeping the tank much harder to figure out what was happening - as information was harder to come by, and the LFS couldnt offer a lot of advice. Suffice to say, after that I packed it up as it was too expensive and I didnt know enough.
Fast forward many years, and I now have several kids of my own. They are at the age where they have started to want to have pets, and bring pets home. Generally speaking my wife and I will not allow pets in the house (I've owned dogs, cats, rabbits, fish etc) as the kids cant take care of them yet, they can be destructive, and we have our hands full with working, and caring for children. The compromise is a salt water aquarium. I personally dont want a fresh water as I find them uninteresting, and more a chore than enjoyment (as the one doing the work I wont be motivated by a fresh water aquarium). A functioning reef tank however can be quite enjoyable and relaxing (if one can ever make it to that stage - which Im willing to try).
The challenges:
Presently we live in a relatively remote mountain in Israel. We moved here around 2 years ago for health reasons primarily, but also financial and lifestyle. In Canada I get around 250+ migraines/year which was really starting to take a toll on my body (and has already damaged my eyes significantly), whereas here I get around 40-50/year. I can go several months without a migraine which is a big relief - however, I dont speak the local language, which makes it challenging to get services performed and to figure things out. In addition, reef keeping is not a big hobby/business here, so while there are services they are harder to come by - nevermind the time we're spending figuring out the various systems and how to live life day to day.
Many of the items Ill have to order internationally which will increase the time and expense.
Plus Im not "handy", like at all. Im mostly a software guy.
The housing here is interesting and not what Im used to. Its mostly stone/cement - which makes changing things around difficult. Housing typically does not come with a basement or an attached garage - so this logistically speaking will be a challenge to work around.
The good news is that a solid concrete floor provides a lot of stability and strength - so there isnt an issue there.
The plan:
The plan is a 220G tank, and a Royal Exclusiv Sump. Ive chosen this route for the following reasons:
- I dont have a lot of spare time - which means I dont have time to fiddle with things that either dont work together nicely, or have to be continually modified DIY'd to make them work
- Eventually I want as much automation as possible
- I primarily want to eliminate guesswork. As someone who spends a good chunk of the day troubleshooting - I find it best to narrow down possible causes of issues with a proper setup to begin with. I feel the Royal Exclusiv sump - while expensive allows me to eliminate certain issues, and focus on a narrower set of issues.
- I wanted to eliminate the need to 'upgrade' as I dont like the idea of investing in something, and having to replace it at a later date to get a size that will accommodate certain setups/livestock. This put me in the 120+ ballpark from the start. Getting a higher quality sump with the features I wanted put me into the 200+ range (due to length requirements)
Tank & Stand
I've worked with various tank vendors over the last several months. Initially it was supposed to be built locally, but the vendor pulled out which left me looking at various options. I looked at the RedSea series, but eliminated it due to the stand - which has a divider below and that means Im stuck with their sump (which I dont like - no offense to anyone who uses it). Same with the Waterbox series. I ordered a 270, thinking I could remove the divider, but when I asked them they confirmed it cannot be removed. Innovative I couldnt order from (not sure why). That lead me to Miracles.
Im in the process of working out a purchase from them for a 220G tank and stand. The stand will be a steel frame with removable wood panels. There will be a valence/canopy at the top of 19 inches (built on an aluminum frame). I wanted at least 15 inches from the top of the canopy to the water in order to accommodate various lighting options - in addition I KNOW my kids will try to throw things into the aquarium (I have some at a young age) and this should solve that problem as well.
Shipping could potentially be a big expense in the thousands of dollars. One option is to ship it by boat - this will be cheaper and allow us to avoid taxes (we get a certain number of tax free container shipments upon moving to Israel - and we have 1 left which expires in the next year)
Sump
The sump will be a "custom" Dreambox Filter system 3.0. It will have the rolling fleece filter system - this was a requirement due to having a pretty bad back and an inability to do a lot of bending over. Im also not into cleaning socks every 2-3 days - I have enough kids socks to clean. The 'Custom' part was the addition of a second Media Filter - which gives more options to stabilize the tank. All of the pumps from Royal Exclusiv are controllable and come with a panel to manage them.
The sump will also come with a reservoir to do auto-top-off, and a sensor built into the sump which will trigger the pump when the water is low.
Lights
Im not settled on this yet - right now Im leaning towards Orphek Atlantiks. Likely 1 to start and then the addition of a second one down the road. This was the reason for the 15 inches of headroom on the canopy/valence. BRS seems to recommend 15 inches b/w the light and the water in order to optimize the spread. I also considered Metal Halide for both the cost and the effectiveness - however Ive moved away from that because I dont want to deal with the heat, shorter light schedules and I dont plan on putting in a chiller. I may re-visit this as I havent made a purchase here yet - so Im not tied to anything and I think Ive left myself enough options.
Automation Equipment
At the moment Im leaning towards the Profilux. The main reasons are - I've heard its a better quality unit with less issues, and its made in Europe which should making getting one with the right plugs etc a bit easier. I know that the Apex is available in an electrical configuration we have here in Israel - however the quality issue still remains for me regarding Apex.
Filtration/Rocks/Sand
Right now the plan is to get a mix of Live Rock and Dry Rock.
Dry Rock:
Im planning for the Dry Rock to be Indonesian - which I can get fairly easily in large quantities. Indonesian - according to studies done - is some of the most porous reef rock available so I think that this will be a good candidate as long as the Phosphates are low. I plan to order a small amount in advance to test it. Im thinking about 150lbs of Dry Rock. Initially Ill likely order 50 lbs and see how it goes.
Live Rock:
According to the vendor Ive spoken to - they do have Live Rock for sale. What this means - Im unsure. Ive confirmed t here is at least 70lbs of it available (most likely Im thinking 50lbs) - but whether this is from existing tanks or not, or actual reef rock I havent been able to clarify as of yet - again language is a bit of a barrier. There could be surprises here. If there are I likely plan to get a few rocks from the ocean. Its not far, and Ive heard that this could help - even if they arent reef rocks.
Sand:
Caribsea Aragalive is likely the brand Ill buy if I can get it. Everything is a bit of an 'if I can get it' here.
Salt:
Tropic Marin will be the salt of choice....if I can get it. This is inline with my philosophy of eliminate as many possible issues by using higher quality gear where possible
RODI:
Im thinking likely a 7 chamber system due to the water here. It seems to have a high calcium content - but I havent tested it.
This is where things start to get a bit more complicated. With a bad back I cant be schlepping water around. Ive consulted a plumber, and there is a line we can bring in from the outside to feed into the back of the house. From here it will run to the RODI and I'll likely get a solenoid valve. I'll use the same area for a line for the RODI drain - as there is a drain already installed at the back of the house. There are a large number of question marks around this area for me as Im not a plumber - and again - language barrier b/w myself and the plumber.
Heaters:
Shego titanium heaters. Royal Exclusiv has holders for them - I've ordered two - so this should be largely settled except for a heater for the mixing reservoir. I havent figured that out yet.
Water Changes:
This is one of the riskier areas imo - because again I cant really be schlepping water around. Im hoping to get away with minimal water changes and dose trace elements from Tropic Marin (Tropic Marin A & K) - but I have a more realistic plan as well.
Short term I plan to get 2 X heavy duty 'cart's' - basically a 4 wheeled unit that a large trashcan/reservoir will sit on, and Ill mix the water in another part of the house and wheel it to the tank to change water. One for draining, one for topping up. I'll need some spare pumps for this work - I havent investigated this area yet. Since Im in a bungalow this is less of a problem as there are no stairs to traverse.
Long Term: Im thinking through having a cabinet - the space I have is around 36 inches wide, 60 inches high and 30 inches deep to put in some small sized reservoirs. Perhaps a water volume sensor in the fresh water reservoir - and when it reaches the high point - water will be pumped to the salter water mixing reservoir - which can then be used for 10% water changes on a monthly basis. Still more thinking on this area required and investigation as to what is available.
Test Kits:
The plan is to check with the local LFS (I havent asked yet) but most likely Id like the Hanna digital kit. Easier to use, faster and more accurate. Sounds like what I likely want to use.
Water Flow:
Most likely 2XMP40's to start. I dont think this will be sufficient in the long term - but in the short term it will be enough.
Plumbing:
Im not a plumber, and I have very little experience in this area. One option is getting the LFS to do it - the owner seems like a perfectionist - He's sent me pictures of several of his jobs - and they look good. They have said they will do the work. The other option is to hire the plumber to do it, or I could try it myself. The issue may be again - getting the parts. Going to the local hardware store to pickup a missing union or elbow isnt an option here - and the wait time to get the parts could be weeks, otherwise possibly driving for hours to get the parts - however I dont speak the language so that could be tricky.
Caveats:
At any time this whole enterprise may stop or fall apart. It will hinge on a number of factors I dont have control over - if it does Ill try to update the thread if I really think that its dead and it wont move further.
Feedback is always welcome. It will be a long ride.
Ive decided to open a thread as I think things are starting to come together enough to indicate a build *might* actually happen at some point in the next year or so.
A little background:
I kept a freshwater aquarium for a number of years when I was younger. I had numerous different types of fish and different configurations etc. At one point in the late 80's/early 90's I convinced my parents to buy me a fluval HOB filter for my 20G so that I could keep a saltwater aquarium instead. The tank was moderately successful for all of about 6-8 months after which time my anemone died, followed by the clowns (I only had 1 anemone and 2 clowns in the tank). No internet made keeping the tank much harder to figure out what was happening - as information was harder to come by, and the LFS couldnt offer a lot of advice. Suffice to say, after that I packed it up as it was too expensive and I didnt know enough.
Fast forward many years, and I now have several kids of my own. They are at the age where they have started to want to have pets, and bring pets home. Generally speaking my wife and I will not allow pets in the house (I've owned dogs, cats, rabbits, fish etc) as the kids cant take care of them yet, they can be destructive, and we have our hands full with working, and caring for children. The compromise is a salt water aquarium. I personally dont want a fresh water as I find them uninteresting, and more a chore than enjoyment (as the one doing the work I wont be motivated by a fresh water aquarium). A functioning reef tank however can be quite enjoyable and relaxing (if one can ever make it to that stage - which Im willing to try).
The challenges:
Presently we live in a relatively remote mountain in Israel. We moved here around 2 years ago for health reasons primarily, but also financial and lifestyle. In Canada I get around 250+ migraines/year which was really starting to take a toll on my body (and has already damaged my eyes significantly), whereas here I get around 40-50/year. I can go several months without a migraine which is a big relief - however, I dont speak the local language, which makes it challenging to get services performed and to figure things out. In addition, reef keeping is not a big hobby/business here, so while there are services they are harder to come by - nevermind the time we're spending figuring out the various systems and how to live life day to day.
Many of the items Ill have to order internationally which will increase the time and expense.
Plus Im not "handy", like at all. Im mostly a software guy.
The housing here is interesting and not what Im used to. Its mostly stone/cement - which makes changing things around difficult. Housing typically does not come with a basement or an attached garage - so this logistically speaking will be a challenge to work around.
The good news is that a solid concrete floor provides a lot of stability and strength - so there isnt an issue there.
The plan:
The plan is a 220G tank, and a Royal Exclusiv Sump. Ive chosen this route for the following reasons:
- I dont have a lot of spare time - which means I dont have time to fiddle with things that either dont work together nicely, or have to be continually modified DIY'd to make them work
- Eventually I want as much automation as possible
- I primarily want to eliminate guesswork. As someone who spends a good chunk of the day troubleshooting - I find it best to narrow down possible causes of issues with a proper setup to begin with. I feel the Royal Exclusiv sump - while expensive allows me to eliminate certain issues, and focus on a narrower set of issues.
- I wanted to eliminate the need to 'upgrade' as I dont like the idea of investing in something, and having to replace it at a later date to get a size that will accommodate certain setups/livestock. This put me in the 120+ ballpark from the start. Getting a higher quality sump with the features I wanted put me into the 200+ range (due to length requirements)
Tank & Stand
I've worked with various tank vendors over the last several months. Initially it was supposed to be built locally, but the vendor pulled out which left me looking at various options. I looked at the RedSea series, but eliminated it due to the stand - which has a divider below and that means Im stuck with their sump (which I dont like - no offense to anyone who uses it). Same with the Waterbox series. I ordered a 270, thinking I could remove the divider, but when I asked them they confirmed it cannot be removed. Innovative I couldnt order from (not sure why). That lead me to Miracles.
Im in the process of working out a purchase from them for a 220G tank and stand. The stand will be a steel frame with removable wood panels. There will be a valence/canopy at the top of 19 inches (built on an aluminum frame). I wanted at least 15 inches from the top of the canopy to the water in order to accommodate various lighting options - in addition I KNOW my kids will try to throw things into the aquarium (I have some at a young age) and this should solve that problem as well.
Shipping could potentially be a big expense in the thousands of dollars. One option is to ship it by boat - this will be cheaper and allow us to avoid taxes (we get a certain number of tax free container shipments upon moving to Israel - and we have 1 left which expires in the next year)
Sump
The sump will be a "custom" Dreambox Filter system 3.0. It will have the rolling fleece filter system - this was a requirement due to having a pretty bad back and an inability to do a lot of bending over. Im also not into cleaning socks every 2-3 days - I have enough kids socks to clean. The 'Custom' part was the addition of a second Media Filter - which gives more options to stabilize the tank. All of the pumps from Royal Exclusiv are controllable and come with a panel to manage them.
The sump will also come with a reservoir to do auto-top-off, and a sensor built into the sump which will trigger the pump when the water is low.
Lights
Im not settled on this yet - right now Im leaning towards Orphek Atlantiks. Likely 1 to start and then the addition of a second one down the road. This was the reason for the 15 inches of headroom on the canopy/valence. BRS seems to recommend 15 inches b/w the light and the water in order to optimize the spread. I also considered Metal Halide for both the cost and the effectiveness - however Ive moved away from that because I dont want to deal with the heat, shorter light schedules and I dont plan on putting in a chiller. I may re-visit this as I havent made a purchase here yet - so Im not tied to anything and I think Ive left myself enough options.
Automation Equipment
At the moment Im leaning towards the Profilux. The main reasons are - I've heard its a better quality unit with less issues, and its made in Europe which should making getting one with the right plugs etc a bit easier. I know that the Apex is available in an electrical configuration we have here in Israel - however the quality issue still remains for me regarding Apex.
Filtration/Rocks/Sand
Right now the plan is to get a mix of Live Rock and Dry Rock.
Dry Rock:
Im planning for the Dry Rock to be Indonesian - which I can get fairly easily in large quantities. Indonesian - according to studies done - is some of the most porous reef rock available so I think that this will be a good candidate as long as the Phosphates are low. I plan to order a small amount in advance to test it. Im thinking about 150lbs of Dry Rock. Initially Ill likely order 50 lbs and see how it goes.
Live Rock:
According to the vendor Ive spoken to - they do have Live Rock for sale. What this means - Im unsure. Ive confirmed t here is at least 70lbs of it available (most likely Im thinking 50lbs) - but whether this is from existing tanks or not, or actual reef rock I havent been able to clarify as of yet - again language is a bit of a barrier. There could be surprises here. If there are I likely plan to get a few rocks from the ocean. Its not far, and Ive heard that this could help - even if they arent reef rocks.
Sand:
Caribsea Aragalive is likely the brand Ill buy if I can get it. Everything is a bit of an 'if I can get it' here.
Salt:
Tropic Marin will be the salt of choice....if I can get it. This is inline with my philosophy of eliminate as many possible issues by using higher quality gear where possible
RODI:
Im thinking likely a 7 chamber system due to the water here. It seems to have a high calcium content - but I havent tested it.
This is where things start to get a bit more complicated. With a bad back I cant be schlepping water around. Ive consulted a plumber, and there is a line we can bring in from the outside to feed into the back of the house. From here it will run to the RODI and I'll likely get a solenoid valve. I'll use the same area for a line for the RODI drain - as there is a drain already installed at the back of the house. There are a large number of question marks around this area for me as Im not a plumber - and again - language barrier b/w myself and the plumber.
Heaters:
Shego titanium heaters. Royal Exclusiv has holders for them - I've ordered two - so this should be largely settled except for a heater for the mixing reservoir. I havent figured that out yet.
Water Changes:
This is one of the riskier areas imo - because again I cant really be schlepping water around. Im hoping to get away with minimal water changes and dose trace elements from Tropic Marin (Tropic Marin A & K) - but I have a more realistic plan as well.
Short term I plan to get 2 X heavy duty 'cart's' - basically a 4 wheeled unit that a large trashcan/reservoir will sit on, and Ill mix the water in another part of the house and wheel it to the tank to change water. One for draining, one for topping up. I'll need some spare pumps for this work - I havent investigated this area yet. Since Im in a bungalow this is less of a problem as there are no stairs to traverse.
Long Term: Im thinking through having a cabinet - the space I have is around 36 inches wide, 60 inches high and 30 inches deep to put in some small sized reservoirs. Perhaps a water volume sensor in the fresh water reservoir - and when it reaches the high point - water will be pumped to the salter water mixing reservoir - which can then be used for 10% water changes on a monthly basis. Still more thinking on this area required and investigation as to what is available.
Test Kits:
The plan is to check with the local LFS (I havent asked yet) but most likely Id like the Hanna digital kit. Easier to use, faster and more accurate. Sounds like what I likely want to use.
Water Flow:
Most likely 2XMP40's to start. I dont think this will be sufficient in the long term - but in the short term it will be enough.
Plumbing:
Im not a plumber, and I have very little experience in this area. One option is getting the LFS to do it - the owner seems like a perfectionist - He's sent me pictures of several of his jobs - and they look good. They have said they will do the work. The other option is to hire the plumber to do it, or I could try it myself. The issue may be again - getting the parts. Going to the local hardware store to pickup a missing union or elbow isnt an option here - and the wait time to get the parts could be weeks, otherwise possibly driving for hours to get the parts - however I dont speak the language so that could be tricky.
Caveats:
At any time this whole enterprise may stop or fall apart. It will hinge on a number of factors I dont have control over - if it does Ill try to update the thread if I really think that its dead and it wont move further.
Feedback is always welcome. It will be a long ride.
.
