6 months in and learning, seeking advice + tips on how you approach supplementation

stnc · Jan 7, 2022

Hey everyone,

So I'm six months and six days into my first saltwater tank (50G Waterbox AIO), and I have learned a ton in this long/short time. First off, I definitely moved too fast, and I've subsequently pulled back and focused on stability and parameter fine-tuning. While I think I'm doing ok, my latest test compared to my ICP test compared to what's going on in my aquarium has me a bit confused.

All of my test results are stored here, with the latest results from yesterday as follows:

Temp: 78.7 - Consistent, and while I track in Hydros, I decided to start including it in my manual tests since it's a result with the Hanna Salinity Checker.
Salinity: 1.025 - This is much improved from 1.021~0.23 of past tests; given the heat of AZ, my water evaporates a bit faster than most, so I've switched from RODI to saltwater in my ATO
Calcium: 594 - Definitely higher, so I pulled back my dosing (which I track here)
Nitrate HR: 17.3 - Fairly consistent, though it's wavered a bit
Nitrate LR: 4.35 - It's consistent with past LR results compared to the HR, but I don't know if that's correct
Nitrite ULR: 0.046 - From what I've read, this is harmless
Phosphate ULR: 0.14 - It's stable and considerably lower after putting in RowaPhos
Ph: 8 - Stable
dKH: 10.1 - Stable
Magnesium: 1410 - Stable
Iodine: 0.06 - A tad high, but I just dosed it, so that could be why. I'm definitely an invert guy, and they don't complain.
Ammonia: 0 - No complaints

I also did an ICP test with an 83% score, with higher than usual Silicium, Iod, and Barium levels. My LFS said that RowaPhos would help, so we'll see with the next ICP test in Feb. RODI was fine as well, but a moot point since I've switched to SW.

So for the questions:

Overall, I know that if it seems to be working for what it is, that's what it is, and that's fine. However, I want to make sure I'm enabling growth vs. survival, and I'm concerned my Phosphase ULR may be hurting that, especially after RowaPhos. Still, my indicators of aquarium health (my giant carpet anemone and clams) seem to be thriving, and obviously, they both strive for stability and establishment, plus my Goni is extended. Still, I figured the higher Phos would be more noticeable in impact.
Calcium is high, but as I've read, as long as I keep things stable (I did pull back the daily dosing from 7.5mL to 6mL), it will eventually be absorbed, and it isn't too much of a concern.
As far as number interpretations, I've shifted my ideal parameter values from my LFS to BRS, but this brings me to my last question. When I look at the Red Sea recommended dosing for NO3: PO4-X NOPOX, they note Phosphate for mixed reef could be as high as 0.12ppm and still be acceptable, whereas BRS says 0. While this is one of those "if it works great," I wanted to see if there was a consensus here. I feel like I'm throwing a lot at my Phosphate, with 50G of RowaPhos, Red Sea NOPOX at 4.5ML/day, and a liquid Phosphate remover from my LFS I'm dosing as well.

Sorry if this is a bit scattered, but ultimately I'm looking for advice + how y'all do it. It feels like it's getting better with time, but I feel like a good gut check + possible realignment are in order.

galantra · Jan 7, 2022

Well had your tank truly matured yet? Are you having green algae film or brown on the glass or rocks?
Was the rock you used establish rock or dry rock?

With your phosphate and nitrate up so high I feel like it’s still cycling.
How often are you doing water changes? I would start with that to help your parameters more then starting to dose right now

stnc · Jan 7, 2022

galantra said:
Well had your tank truly matured yet? Are you having green algae film or brown on the glass or rocks?
Was the rock you used establish rock or dry rock?

With your phosphate and nitrate up so high I feel like it’s still cycling.
How often are you doing water changes? I would start with that to help your parameters more then starting to dose right now

I’ve had green algae and it’s mostly passed, and the brown on the glass is less and less. I started with Caribsea live rock.

I do water changes weekly. I started at 10%, then then a few bigger ones due to some die offs, and I’ve been doing 20% (10G) weekly since mid November.

galantra · Jan 7, 2022

So your tanks getting there. Usually around 8 months I have always felt more comfortable starting to add assistance. You can add gfo but idk about dosing.

The thing you have to realize here is don’t chase the numbers!! Doing this will cause you to have bigger issues. What you wanna do is getting it close to or around where safe parameters should be. Eventually your tank will find its way to stay stable. Every system is completely different.
How many fish are in the tank?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 7, 2022

stnc said:
As far as number interpretations, I've shifted my ideal parameter values from my LFS to BRS, but this brings me to my last question. When I look at the Red Sea recommended dosing for NO3: PO4-X NOPOX, they note Phosphate for mixed reef could be as high as 0.12ppm and still be acceptable, whereas BRS says 0. While this is one of those "if it works great," I wanted to see if there was a consensus here. I feel like I'm throwing a lot at my Phosphate, with 50G of RowaPhos, Red Sea NOPOX at 4.5ML/day, and a liquid Phosphate remover from my LFS I'm dosing as well.

Both are wrong, but BRS is much more wrong if that's what they actually write.

Some tanks that nearly everyone would aspire to have phosphate above 1.0 ppm, but a happy medium to shoot for is about 0.02 to 0.1 ppm phosphate.

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

Rich’s 150 gallon display, on a 300 gallon system, is running a phosphate level of 1.24 ppm, a level at 24.8 times higher than the often recommended .05 ppm. Photo by Richard Ross.

emmysnewtank · Jan 7, 2022

Did I read correctly you are topping off with saltwater? Is t that going to blast your salinity levels?

ying yang · Jan 7, 2022

Hi hope all is well,can't help on dosing as never done it but in your first post you saying hotter in Arizona so replaced rodi for saltwater in your ato ? Is this a temporary thing to raise salinity or a permanent change ? As water evaporates and salt stays in soloution so ev3n if hotter than usual still need rodi in the ato to replace evaporated water or am I missing something ?

ying yang · Jan 7, 2022

Aw you caught it earlier also.couldnt reply as some reason my brand new phone playing up and if try add a quote then it starts adding letters in words I already wrote lol ( maybe because old phone still logged in idk )

Did I read correctly you are topping off with saltwater? Is t that going to blast your salinity levels?

stnc · Jan 7, 2022

galantra said:
So your tanks getting there. Usually around 8 months I have always felt more comfortable starting to add assistance. You can add gfo but idk about dosing.

The thing you have to realize here is don’t chase the numbers!! Doing this will cause you to have bigger issues. What you wanna do is getting it close to or around where safe parameters should be. Eventually your tank will find its way to stay stable. Every system is completely different.
How many fish are in the tank?

Gotcha gotcha, so we're getting there! From what I've seen so far, the dosing has helped achieve stability, but I've tried not to go overboard.

100% on not chasing numbers; that's why I wanted to ask R2R to see what everyone says! I'm a pilot, so simple corrections come naturally to me

I've got 11 fish in the tank; they're all great, Engineer is growing rapidly, and the other reason for the post was also that with my tangs and blenny, if I keep some algae, that feeds them as well (+ the supplemental shrimp)

Purple Tang
Bristletooth Tang (he's going into my LowBoy once it cycles)
Two Black Stubby Ocellaris Clownfish (bonded pair, they live in the anemone)
Two Cardinalfish (not a bonded pair, definitely divorced)
Two Blue-Green Chromis (bonded pair)
Engineer Goby
Lawnmower Blenny
Spotted Mandarin

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Both are wrong, but BRS is much more wrong if that's what they actually write.

Some tanks that nearly everyone would aspire to have phosphate above 1.0 ppm, but a happy medium to shoot for is about 0.02 to 0.1 ppm phosphate.

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

Rich’s 150 gallon display, on a 300 gallon system, is running a phosphate level of 1.24 ppm, a level at 24.8 times higher than the often recommended .05 ppm. Photo by Richard Ross.

So this was another reason why I posted this because I assumed this to be the case, I'm no scientist, but it just seems...unnatural to try and have everything at zero...as that's not how the ocean works. I'll read this article right now; thanks for sharing!

emmysnewtank said:
Did I read correctly you are topping off with saltwater? Is t that going to blast your salinity levels?

You read that correctly, and I've kept a close eye on it, and it's brought the level to perfect. I produce RODI just in case I need to balance. On my LowBoy, I did the same thing, but the SW was a bit higher, so I've started to mix half and half.

ying yang said:
Hi hope all is well,can't help on dosing as never done it but in your first post you saying hotter in Arizona so replaced rodi for saltwater in your ato ? Is this a temporary thing to raise salinity or a permanent change ? As water evaporates and salt stays in soloution so ev3n if hotter than usual still need rodi in the ato to replace evaporated water or am I missing something ?

I think I'll have to keep some salinity mix in there, maybe not 100% like now, but so far, the levels are good!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 7, 2022

stnc said:
I think I'll have to keep some salinity mix in there, maybe not 100% like now, but so far, the levels are good!

Unless you are exporting substantial volumes of tank water (e.g., wet skimming), or are actively trying to boost salinity, there should be no salt in the top off water. If you are doing either of those other things, then it is fine and raising salinity via top off is certainly a good plan.

stnc · Jan 7, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Unless you are exporting substantial volumes of tank water (e.g., wet skimming), or are actively trying to boost salinity, there should be no salt in the top off water. If you are doing either of those other things, then it is fine and raising salinity via top off is certainly a good plan.

It's the latter, the tank always has low salinity and this seems to have fixed it, now I just need to fine-tune the mix.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 7, 2022

stnc said:
It's the latter, the tank always has low salinity and this seems to have fixed it, now I just need to fine-tune the mix.

I would think of it as a temporary correction that even full strength salt water is suitable for. There is no ongoing need for salt in top off unless you are somehow removing salt from the aquarium. It does not just "happen". Salt will just keep accumulating, always driving up salinity higher and higher.

Don't be fooled by short term testing. It is not needed long term.

stnc · Jan 7, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I would think of it as a temporary correction that even full strength salt water is suitable for. There is no ongoing need for salt in top off unless you are somehow removing salt from the aquarium. It does not just "happen". Salt will just keep accumulating, always driving up salinity higher and higher.

Don't be fooled by short term testing. It is not needed long term.

For sure, I'm trying to keep myself accountable with my tracker document, as well as not being afraid to ask questions. The ATO reservoir is almost out so I'm going to cycle RODI back in and see what happens, but I'll be fast on my toes about it.

stnc · Jan 7, 2022

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Both are wrong, but BRS is much more wrong if that's what they actually write.

Some tanks that nearly everyone would aspire to have phosphate above 1.0 ppm, but a happy medium to shoot for is about 0.02 to 0.1 ppm phosphate.

Skeptical Reefkeeping 9: Test Kits, Chasing Numbers and Phosphate

By Rich Ross and Chris Jury There are many standard parameters in the reefkeeping world that aquarists strive to match in their home reefs – water quality,

reefs.com

Rich’s 150 gallon display, on a 300 gallon system, is running a phosphate level of 1.24 ppm, a level at 24.8 times higher than the often recommended .05 ppm. Photo by Richard Ross.

@Randy Holmes-Farley I just checked and the link isn't working - is that just on my end?

Karen00 · Jan 7, 2022

stnc said:
I’ve had green algae and it’s mostly passed, and the brown on the glass is less and less. I started with Caribsea live rock.

I do water changes weekly. I started at 10%, then then a few bigger ones due to some die offs, and I’ve been doing 20% (10G) weekly since mid November.

Do you mean the CaribSea Liferock (which is dry rock seeded with beneficial bacteria spores)?

stnc · Jan 7, 2022

Karen00 said:
Do you mean the CaribSea Liferock (which is dry rock seeded with beneficial bacteria spores)?

Yes, I also used fritz turbo start 900 at the start in July and then again in October when I added some Brightwell Aquatics Xport-BIO Blocks

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 7, 2022

stnc said:
@Randy Holmes-Farley I just checked and the link isn't working - is that just on my end?

No, it seemed to not be working when I posted it. Not sure why, but I expect it will be back.

Karen00 · Jan 7, 2022

stnc said:
Yes, I also used fritz turbo start 900 at the start in July and then again in October when I added some Brightwell Aquatics Xport-BIO Blocks

Great. I just wanted to confirm because there is a difference between the Liferock and live rock.