900G System Build
- Thread starter ReefEco
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OMG, I am speechless. You are a true craftsman. Looking forward to seeing this whole system up and running. The thought process going on in your head just to plan this project blows me away. When do you have time for work and family? Just kidding. Wow Wow Wow.
Outstanding!
Commendable effort. You have put some thought into your plan. Here are some additional points you may want to consider:
Electrical
-GFCI protection on all circuits. You will be in a moist, humid area (see below) and at risk of shock or transient current. Besides, it's what code requires.
-Backup power. Calculating circuit loads is a good start. When we install these rooms, we always spec a back up power source. You may want to consider that also.
-Bubble covers are a good choice. Make sure they are weatherproof. Some are not.
Plumbing
-Consider PEX instead of PVC. much easier to work with and more reliable
Moisture Control
-This is the area you need to work on a bit. A small bathroom fan is not going to provide you with the moisture control you need. Especially in such a small room. You will have significant water vapor pressure (humidity) and simply venting the room is not going to reduce the humidity. I noticed you have a small supply vent serving the room. Speaking in general terms, the air in this room has to go somewhere and come from somewhere. If the ventilation is tied in with the rest of your home, you will have it circulate throughout your residence. What this means is your ductwork will be exposed to very moist air and your HVAC system is probably not equipped to handle it.
The best solution for climate control (rather than "moisture control") is something called a "mini-split" or "ductless" heat pump. They are very efficient, quiet, and affordable. These units will maintain a very stable climate regardless of your geography. You are using a lot of wood for your shelving and I noticed you did not use water resistant green sheetrock. Without a mini-split system like this, water vapor will cause the problems you are trying to avoid. This is also why the need for GFCI and weatherproof bubble covers.
The first signs of moisture buildup will be smell. Then exposed metal parts such as door hinges and vent covers will begin to corrode. Then the mold will set in.
There are other observations such as using extruded profiles instead of wood. You can private message me if you like.
I am not trying to barf on your project. These are lessons we have learned from installing dozens and dozens of life support systems like this.
By the way, we also built some holding tanks for your employer Steinhart Aquarium waaaay back in the late 1980's(?) when they were undergoing their renovation/expansion. Amazing place.
Good luck and best wishes.
Great input. Do you have any pictures of your plumbing and fittings? I’ve always favored pex piping over vinyl but I can’t seem to find any quick connect fittings (past 1/2”) only barbed. I have not seen pex replace pvc in application such as drains and bulkhead connections. Do you use gate valves and if so do they make some that quick connect to pex piping?
Let me see what I can find to post as far as pictures. Most of our installations are under mutual NDA's and we normally don't post installations. The PEX I mentioned for the external plumbing from like for example RO to holding tanks, etc. I will post a couple of those types of shots later today. As for gate valves and such, every installation is different. We use valves sparingly. Mostly for isolation and maintenance. Pex can be assembled many a few different ways. Crimping is one method and there are a few crimping methods. This is the least expensive if you are going to do a lot of it. The other method is best exemplified with the Sharkbite brand. Per piece is expensive but if you need just a few, this is the best option.
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ReefEco
Well-Known Member
Hey Tenecor - thanks for the input - below are some answers to your questions, most of which have already been implemented or considered:
Electrical
-GFCI protection on all circuits. You will be in a moist, humid area (see below) and at risk of shock or transient current. Besides, it's what code requires. Yup, this was done from the outset.
-Backup power. Calculating circuit loads is a good start. When we install these rooms, we always spec a back up power source. You may want to consider that also. I have a whole house natural gas backup generator, comes on automatically during an outtage, which we have often up here in the mountains with our snow storms.
-Bubble covers are a good choice. Make sure they are weatherproof. Some are not. Check.
Plumbing
-Consider PEX instead of PVC. much easier to work with and more reliable. I find the white PVC very adequate, and what I'm used to using - like most hobbyists. At least the pex installs I've seen with regular plumbing use metal crimp connectors, which is not ideal over a sump or in proximity to saltwater. I don't know how corrosion resistant they are, or if there is a different type of connector you employ, but less metal in the fishroom the better.
Moisture Control
-This is the area you need to work on a bit. A small bathroom fan is not going to provide you with the moisture control you need. Especially in such a small room. You will have significant water vapor pressure (humidity) and simply venting the room is not going to reduce the humidity. I noticed you have a small supply vent serving the room. Speaking in general terms, the air in this room has to go somewhere and come from somewhere. If the ventilation is tied in with the rest of your home, you will have it circulate throughout your residence. What this means is your ductwork will be exposed to very moist air and your HVAC system is probably not equipped to handle it.
The best solution for climate control (rather than "moisture control") is something called a "mini-split" or "ductless" heat pump. They are very efficient, quiet, and affordable. These units will maintain a very stable climate regardless of your geography. You are using a lot of wood for your shelving and I noticed you did not use water resistant green sheetrock. Without a mini-split system like this, water vapor will cause the problems you are trying to avoid. This is also why the need for GFCI and weatherproof bubble covers.
The first signs of moisture buildup will be smell. Then exposed metal parts such as door hinges and vent covers will begin to corrode. Then the mold will set in. I live in what is called an envelope house, passive solar designed. So, the intake you saw takes fresh air from the outside envelope of the house, into the fishroom. Then the exhaust fan takes that, including a second exhaust fan in the display tank hood, and expels the air. I have the exhaust fan on a humidistat, and the fishroom humidity stays at 40%. Not a single sign of moisture on the walls or ceiling, which I'm sure the ceiling fan helps with as well. (I'm editing videos at this point and catching up to real time, but the tank has already been running for about 4 months.) I've epoxy coated the ceilings, and covered the walls with polywall - making what I hope is an impervious membrane. All wood is either coated in epoxy paint, or covered with polywall as a barrier, or both. A mini-split system would be nice, but for a 10x10 room I don't think it is in the cards for most people - certainly not me. I have not seen that I need it. We don't have AC at all where I live.
There are other observations such as using extruded profiles instead of wood. You can private message me if you like.
I am not trying to barf on your project. These are lessons we have learned from installing dozens and dozens of life support systems like this. I don't think you are barfing - thanks for the input. I never stop learning in this hobby, and in life. I've considered and hopefully addressed most of the issues you've raised already - time will tell if my particular solutions will last.
By the way, we also built some holding tanks for your employer Steinhart Aquarium waaaay back in the late 1980's(?) when they were undergoing their renovation/expansion. Amazing place. Before my time, but I love that place. It is what started my fascination - as I used to go behind the scenes as a kid to feed the fish, when my mom was a docent there. It is a testament to the kind of place that can spark appreciation for the natural world in generation after generation!
Electrical
-GFCI protection on all circuits. You will be in a moist, humid area (see below) and at risk of shock or transient current. Besides, it's what code requires. Yup, this was done from the outset.
-Backup power. Calculating circuit loads is a good start. When we install these rooms, we always spec a back up power source. You may want to consider that also. I have a whole house natural gas backup generator, comes on automatically during an outtage, which we have often up here in the mountains with our snow storms.
-Bubble covers are a good choice. Make sure they are weatherproof. Some are not. Check.
Plumbing
-Consider PEX instead of PVC. much easier to work with and more reliable. I find the white PVC very adequate, and what I'm used to using - like most hobbyists. At least the pex installs I've seen with regular plumbing use metal crimp connectors, which is not ideal over a sump or in proximity to saltwater. I don't know how corrosion resistant they are, or if there is a different type of connector you employ, but less metal in the fishroom the better.
Moisture Control
-This is the area you need to work on a bit. A small bathroom fan is not going to provide you with the moisture control you need. Especially in such a small room. You will have significant water vapor pressure (humidity) and simply venting the room is not going to reduce the humidity. I noticed you have a small supply vent serving the room. Speaking in general terms, the air in this room has to go somewhere and come from somewhere. If the ventilation is tied in with the rest of your home, you will have it circulate throughout your residence. What this means is your ductwork will be exposed to very moist air and your HVAC system is probably not equipped to handle it.
The best solution for climate control (rather than "moisture control") is something called a "mini-split" or "ductless" heat pump. They are very efficient, quiet, and affordable. These units will maintain a very stable climate regardless of your geography. You are using a lot of wood for your shelving and I noticed you did not use water resistant green sheetrock. Without a mini-split system like this, water vapor will cause the problems you are trying to avoid. This is also why the need for GFCI and weatherproof bubble covers.
The first signs of moisture buildup will be smell. Then exposed metal parts such as door hinges and vent covers will begin to corrode. Then the mold will set in. I live in what is called an envelope house, passive solar designed. So, the intake you saw takes fresh air from the outside envelope of the house, into the fishroom. Then the exhaust fan takes that, including a second exhaust fan in the display tank hood, and expels the air. I have the exhaust fan on a humidistat, and the fishroom humidity stays at 40%. Not a single sign of moisture on the walls or ceiling, which I'm sure the ceiling fan helps with as well. (I'm editing videos at this point and catching up to real time, but the tank has already been running for about 4 months.) I've epoxy coated the ceilings, and covered the walls with polywall - making what I hope is an impervious membrane. All wood is either coated in epoxy paint, or covered with polywall as a barrier, or both. A mini-split system would be nice, but for a 10x10 room I don't think it is in the cards for most people - certainly not me. I have not seen that I need it. We don't have AC at all where I live.
There are other observations such as using extruded profiles instead of wood. You can private message me if you like.
I am not trying to barf on your project. These are lessons we have learned from installing dozens and dozens of life support systems like this. I don't think you are barfing - thanks for the input. I never stop learning in this hobby, and in life. I've considered and hopefully addressed most of the issues you've raised already - time will tell if my particular solutions will last.
By the way, we also built some holding tanks for your employer Steinhart Aquarium waaaay back in the late 1980's(?) when they were undergoing their renovation/expansion. Amazing place. Before my time, but I love that place. It is what started my fascination - as I used to go behind the scenes as a kid to feed the fish, when my mom was a docent there. It is a testament to the kind of place that can spark appreciation for the natural world in generation after generation!
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ReefEco
Well-Known Member
Thanks so much! I had about 4 years during the renovation of my house to plan, draw, re-draw, re-plan, dream, start all over again, draw, plan... you get the picture. Certainly researching and learning from other hobbyists and on Reef2Reef has been a tremendous help. I love this community - we are all crazy in the same way, LOL.
Here are a couple of examples of what I was talking about.
Ductless mini-split
800 GPD RO
VIQUA UV STERILIZER
400 GALLON RO WATER HOLDING TANK
600 GALLON EPOXY LINED 316 STAINLESS MIXING TANK
EPOXY COATED FLOOR WITH MOLDED COVE BASE. NOTICE THERE IS NO GAP BETWEEN THE FLOOR AND THE WALL
GRUNDFOS TRANSFER PUMP - OUR FAVORITE BRAND
SLOPED FLOOR DRAIN WITH STAINLESS COVER
PORTABLE WHEELED 50(?) GALLON UTILITY TRANSFER VESSEL
We believe the mini-split is a crucial element for maintaining lower humidity and temperature stability. When rooms like this are tied into the main HVAC or ventilation system, there is a high likelihood of system imbalance. Properly designed HVAC are custom sized for the building. For example, a home that requires a 6 Ton system will be very uncomfortable if a 10 Ton is installed. Adding an additional Costa Rican rain forest will also throw the primary HVAC of balance. Notice the how and where PEX was used.
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ReefEco
Well-Known Member
I think many of these solutions seems to be geared toward more commercial sized systems? Alot of them would be great to have, but overly expensive and don't seem necessary for smaller hobbyist systems. For instance, my exhaust fan is doing well at keeping the humidity to 40%, and a mini-split is definitely not necessary, especially since I don't have AC in my house. The transfer pump you suggest is $700-$1100, which seems a bit much for moving water between vats? I would also still worry about the brass Sharkbite fittings on the pex, if that is what they are? Have you had long term success with them? Brass will corrode in saltwater, and some brass will undergo de-zincification as well. I feel much better about the long term survivability of plumbing that simply omits any metal whatsoever, which is I think why PVC has become the norm in our hobbyist systems. Still, the gear you present is certainly beautiful and I'm sure anyone would be lucky to have you build their system! You might want to get a waterproof cover on that outlet ; )
This is a private residence. Yes, some items are $$. I posted this to simply give suggestions, not sell anything. One of the reasons I enjoy this hobby is the DIY attitude. Not many things left in this world where you can roll up your sleeves and do the work. The sharkbite fittings are pre saltwater.
A little off topic but you might get a kick out of it. Here is a picture of the World's oldest acrylic AIO. We built this exact one in late 1979 and it has been a saltwater as well as freshwater tank. Back then the best available compact lighting was an OSRAM DULUX compact fluorescent light and I raised see cucumbers in this tank. It's still running. And cheap.
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ReefEco
Well-Known Member
Clearly an example of something that is well-built, and built to last! I had to replace the two Aqueon glass tanks, barely a year old, on the QT system since one leaked, and the other I then didn't trust. Your tank has been around for 40+ years! Congrats.A little off topic but you might get a kick out of it. Here is a picture of the World's oldest acrylic AIO. We built this exact one in late 1979 and it has been a saltwater as well as freshwater tank. Back then the best available compact lighting was an OSRAM DULUX compact fluorescent light and I raised see cucumbers in this tank. It's still running. And cheap.
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ReefEco
Well-Known Member
Next installment - part one of the QT System. This is the only video which is out of sequence, as I built this QT system about a year ago. Had various delays on the main system build after that, including damaged tanks I initially ordered. Thanks for watching - and hope everyone has a wonderful holidays!
suresh2989
Community Member
I am at the same spot, I have been doing so much research for the past few days and once I dwelled deeper and closer to the actual build i realize how much far away from actual build I am, reality kicks in.
suresh2989
Community Member
Amazing workmanship in that video and you have captured close up shots the capillary action in pin method.
Very good video, do you think I can achieve the same level of edge prepping in a edge scrapper ? I do not have access to a router and I am looking at places who can do it for me nevertheless I would like to know if scrapper prepped edges make for a good weld ?
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ReefEco
Well-Known Member
Hey Suresh - duplicating my answer here on YT - I would agree that hand prepping is risky unless you are REALLY good at it, which I'm not. It would be too easy to get a dip or round off the edge I think. I've seen it done (I think there was a video by Joey/King of DIY), but I personally wouldn't try it, especially with thicker more expensive material. You could try either a woodworker shop (who might not want to work on acrylic, not sure), or try a sign shop to cut your panels on their CNC. That might eat into your budget, as I imagine having them cut the panels would add significantly to cost. BTW, I'm only using 3/8" acrylic (10mm) on my sumps, one of which is about the same dimensions as yours (even longer), so using 18mm seem like overkill unless you are not adding a top rim or any bracing to help the long span not bow. I'm all for over-building though, so thicker acrylic is better in general : ) if not cost-prohibitive. Sorry I can't be more help on the edge prep, which is even more difficult the thicker the panels - as it gets more difficult to keep the edges perfectly flat and perpendicular to the sides the thicker the panels. If you do end up having to hand prep, you might buy some material and practice before trying it on the real sheets for the aquarium. If you were in my area I'd invite you over and do the edge prep for ya!
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