Activated Carbon: What’s Your Thoughts?

[sundog101]

I know this is probably beating a dead horse, but I’d like to hear your thoughts on using carbon long term.

I know people say it takes out the “good stuff” and could cause HLLE, but is any of this proven? What “good stuff” could it be taking out? Is there any good evidence linking GAC to HLLE?

 

[jda]

There was an initial study 5-6 years ago that showed that some Certian Atlantic fish got HLLE on tanks that carbon was used on. This was not a study and they were asking for commentary, review and support like any good bit of science, but it got taken as such - I never saw any follow up. The findings have disappeared from the internet, but there are still some summaries out there. There were some issues with it - first the fish that they used were not suitable for captivity (Acanthurus bahianus) and not even offered in the aquarium trade - if this is not a red flag for baseline/control, then I do not know what is. Second, they would not mention what kind of diet that the the fish got. Diet is the main reason that I have seen fish get HLLE.

I have used carbon off/on for a few decades and my fish do not have HLLE - never have. I have gotten rescue fish that had HLLE and most were tangs and angelfish that were fed mostly/all dried nori and deprived meat - Vitamin A, E and a balanced diet with some pellets and mysis cleared this up pretty well.

I would avoid the dust and rinse well, but I would use GAC without any hesitation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't think there is any substantial drawback to using reasonable amounts of a good quality GAC, such as ROX 0.8.

I had some HLLE types of issues in tangs when using ozone and large amounts of Marineland Black Diamond (not acid washed), but not later when I stopped ozone and used ROX. Not sure if either was the cause, but I suspect one of them was.

 

[S-t-r-e-t-c-h]

There was an initial study 5-6 years ago that showed that some Certian Atlantic fish got HLLE on tanks that carbon was used on. This was not a study and they were asking for commentary, review and support like any good bit of science, but it got taken as such - I never saw any follow up. The findings have disappeared from the internet, but there are still some summaries out there. There were some issues with it - first the fish that they used were not suitable for captivity (Acanthurus bahianus) and not even offered in the aquarium trade - if this is not a red flag for baseline/control, then I do not know what is. Second, they would not mention what kind of diet that the the fish got. Diet is the main reason that I have seen fish get HLLE.

I have used carbon off/on for a few decades and my fish do not have HLLE - never have. I have gotten rescue fish that had HLLE and most were tangs and angelfish that were fed mostly/all dried nori and deprived meat - Vitamin A, E and a balanced diet with some pellets and mysis cleared this up pretty well.

I would avoid the dust and rinse well, but I would use GAC without any hesitation.

There were two studies that I'm aware of:
#1 - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blo...ted-in-inducing-head-and-lateral-line-erosion
#2 - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/activated-carbon-affirmed-as-causative-agent-for-hlle-disease

The results seemed pretty clear, but there could of course be other causes for HLLE that weren't tested:

To investigate this potential source, Jay and others setup three 120 gallon systems with 35 Ocean Surgeonfish (Acanthurus bihianus) evenly distributed between each system. Variables such as light, voltage, air supply, filtration, diet, maintenance, water quality, acclimation, and collection technique were all rigorously controlled throughout the study. The first system had a 500 gram mesh bag of unwashed lignite carbon added to the sump. The second system had 500 grams of pelletized carbon added. The third system was used as a control.

During their monitoring, the fish in the first system (unwashed lignin carbon) started exhibiting HLLE after 20 days and after four months all fish were exibiting HLLE. The fish in the second system (pelletized carbon) did not show outward signs of HLLE. However upon microscopic examination, legions were found. Fish in the third system (control) showed no signs of HLLE.

A post-HLLE diet study was conducted on the fish and it was found that the fish with the most severe HLLE exhibited long-term health effects (lower body weight).

 

[jda]

Neither of those were the exercise, they just referenced it. The real "study" was about 10,000 words with photos of their facility, the fish, vats, etc. and had nothing to do with a hobby related magazine. They put it out for comment and to get second opinions, yet it got construed as fact. The whole thing appears to have disappeared from the web, and only these references remain. Those two references used to link you to the exercise and now they link you to each other.

The best thing that is left of the real paper are the posts on RC from those years when it was still available read. You should be able to find these in the RC archives.

 

[firefishalumacraft]

Been using BRS 0.8 GAC in a reactor, I was told that HLLE was from not rinsing the dust of the carbon or not enough. Before I install my carbon I run the pump in RO/DI for 2-3 min. Never had a fish with HLLE

 

[S-t-r-e-t-c-h]

Neither of those were the exercise, they just referenced it. The real "study" was about 10,000 words with photos of their facility, the fish, vats, etc. and had nothing to do with a hobby related magazine. They put it out for comment and to get second opinions, yet it got construed as fact. The whole thing appears to have disappeared from the web, and only these references remain. Those two references used to link you to the exercise and now they link you to each other.

The best thing that is left of the real paper are the posts on RC from those years when it was still available read. You should be able to find these in the RC archives.

I'm not familiar with the history and don't know all of the additional details that you mentioned, but both were published in aquatic science journals. That at least implies that they were peer reviewed. They're behind paywalls at this point, which which I assume includes all the photos and materials that you mentioned:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15222055.2011.635781?src=recsys
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08997659.2011.608608?src=recsys

I know I said "implies" and "assumes" a lot here...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not familiar with the history and don't know all of the additional details that you mentioned, but both were published in aquatic science journals. That at least implies that they were peer reviewed. They're behind paywalls at this point, which which I assume includes all the photos and materials that you mentioned:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15222055.2011.635781?src=recsys
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08997659.2011.608608?src=recsys

I know I said "implies" and "assumes" a lot here...

From its abstract, the first one seems a reasonable experiment with a control:

"Activated lignite carbon was added to one system, and pelleted carbon was added to the second system. The fish in the third system were not exposed to any carbon. All 12 fish that were exposed to lignite carbon developed severe HLLE within 3 months. The 12 fish that were exposed to pelleted carbon did not develop gross symptoms, but microscopic lesions were discovered upon histological examination. The 11 control fish did not develop any visible or microscopic lesions. Based on these results, the use of activated lignite carbon in marine aquariums that house HLLE-susceptible species is discouraged."

 

[jda]

That could be the same exercise. If so, the they did indeed ask for peer review, which they might have gotten. Those two still look like the same study to me.