Adding a ramp timer

[jsmkmavity]

I have 2 black box led fixtures that i would like to upgrade with a ramp timer so they automatically simulate sunrise/sunset like my orbit. Has anyone done this? Would the tc420 controller work? Would i need other parts to make it work? I dont have apex or other automation and i dont have wifi so its programmable only. I have a lot of mechanical and electrical skill i just dont know what electronics do different tasks. Another idea i had is maybe find a cheap or free used light that would have a timer to cannibalize?
I am also interested in seeing other diy led light mods/upgrades people have done.

 

[oreo54]

I have 2 black box led fixtures that i would like to upgrade with a ramp timer so they automatically simulate sunrise/sunset like my orbit. Has anyone done this? Would the tc420 controller work? Would i need other parts to make it work? I dont have apex or other automation and i dont have wifi so its programmable only. I have a lot of mechanical and electrical skill i just dont know what electronics do different tasks. Another idea i had is maybe find a cheap or free used light that would have a timer to cannibalize?
I am also interested in seeing other diy led light mods/upgrades people have done.

That's a big question starting with which black box model?
I wish I could say "just buy 2 of these and a tc-420" but they apparently haven't been in stock since 2020.
TC-420 would need to be modified to take advantage of the 5v pwm signal inside.
https://www.tindie.com/products/ranthalion/pwm-converter-for-mars-aqua/
As to DIY.. also many threads.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/general-diy-led-thread.534238/
Generally black box drivers are kind of "special".

Most drivers in these boxes are 80-100v output per channel. Then, some are dimmed via 0-10v analog, some 10v PWM, and some 5v PWM.

This is for Apex but it gives you an overview of how this particular model works.
https://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2515591
To be honest, I'd rather show you how to DIY over, though relatively simple, playing with bb drivers/control.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/tc420-421.50781/

 

[jsmkmavity]

The one i am using now is a viparspectra v165.
I also have a this.

 

[jsmkmavity]

I actually like the color of this one better.

 

[jsmkmavity]

I had them both apart a few weeks ago thinking about swapping some leds but they were too different. If i opened it up again what would i look for to see if its pwm or other dimmer? In the mean time i will read thru the links provides, thank you.

 

[jsmkmavity]

Would like to hear from others with diy led experience and more details from those who have already responded.

 

[DanyL]

While I haven’t hacked any led fixtures, I did hack other electronics.

Sometimes it is easier to hook into the interface itself, if it has one.
If not through the network, than by modifying the firmware, or by externally controlling it using a microcontroller.

Network control is the easiest and the cleanest way to achieve it, but as you said - you have no network access here.

Modifying the firmware is usually harder to achieve and requires some expertise, because other than the need to extract it, you will also have to be able to reverse engineer and than patch it with your modifications.

But controlling physical buttons, nad automating it it using an external microcontroller like an esp or arduino board is usually good, and easy middle ground.
It doesn’t require a ton of reverse engineering and is pretty straightforward.

That is, of course - if there is an interface you can hijack and control in the first place.

 

[oreo54]

Would like to hear from others with diy led experience and more details from those who have already responded.

Nobody can actually help you without knowing how the orig. driver orks. That is usually guessed at by the markings on the dimmer board.
How would one pick a controller without knowing if it has to do pwm (5v, 3.3v, 10v though pwm usually is in a range like 3-9V.
IF pwm, what frequency is acceptable 500Hz- 1Khz, 10 KHz -100Khz (example only)

Or plain old 1-10v or 0-10v analog dimming.

There's not a guarantee your 2 lights even dim the same way. It's likely but....?

ONCE you determine the dimming protocol you can hunt for a controller that outputs it.
Like the below for 0-10v analog control.

Shelly Plus 0-10V Dimmer | WiFi Smart Dimmer Switch | String Light | Home Automation | Bluetooth Gateway | Compatible with Alexa & Google Home | iOS Android App | No Hub Required | Dimming Controller​

Amazon product ASIN B0CM28PJYL

6 years ago.. This subjects been around for over a decade..

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mars-aqua-chinese-black-box-pwm-converter.571546/
Technically, he was wrong.

This design should work for any light that uses 0-10v analog dimming. I'm not sure how the other lights work, but I would be surprised if other black box LED lights worked differently.

Many are labelled PWM not 0-10v..
Driver side photo..

 

[jsmkmavity]

I asked earlier in this thread what to look for if i take them apart again so i can get the right parts. I only know of 2 styles, pwm and 0-10v but dont know how to tell what i am looking at.

 

[oreo54]

I asked earlier in this thread what to look for if i take them apart again so i can get the right parts. I only know of 2 styles, pwm and 0-10v but dont know how to tell what i am looking at.

It's usually labelled on the dimmer.. See the pic above as well.

BUT it's not the whole story.. Like I said PWM "means" a lot of things.. Voltage and frequency is generally need though. That can only be determined by measuring stuff and from what I've seen it gets weird.

 

[jsmkmavity]

2 of these in the light. It says vr1,pwm and grd on the end

 

[jsmkmavity]

2 of these behind the dimmer knobs.

 

[jsmkmavity]

1 of each of these

 

[DanyL]

The NodeMCU board is an ESP8266 based development board.

If it has pwm control over the light, than you should be able to program it to add ramping and timers.

Alternatively, you can replace it with your own logic.

Either way, you need to map its IO and understand what is hooked up to it.

 

[oreo54]

That's a completely different animal than the old manual black boxes.
Already set up for WIFI. Not even sure why the dimmer knobs are there.. except as I guess a failsafe if there is no network control.
You have now jumped out of my league here.

 

[oreo54]

The NodeMCU board is an ESP8266 based development board.

If it has pwm control over the light, than you should be able to program it to add ramping and timers.

Their problem seems to be that they have no wifi and want to change the method of programming.
Or I'm misunderstanding the issue.

Technically the fact it uses that board should make it much easier. No analog dimming. Likely 5v PWM (or 3.3v).
Frequency should be normal or understandable. A typhon/Hurricane/Aduino can be substituted..

 

[DanyL]

That's a completely different animal than the old manual black boxes.
Already set up for WIFI. Not even sure why the dimmer knobs are there.. except as I guess a failsafe if there is no network control.
You have now jumped out of my league here.

It’s not necessarily set up to use the WiFi functionality.

I’ve seen some products that use esp as a plain controller, solely for its cheap price.

 

[jsmkmavity]

Correct, no wifi. I have whats available in my phone (android) but it goes with me when i leave.

 

[jsmkmavity]

If i could somehow program it to sunrise and sunset times/intensities thats all i really want. It just needs to be able to keep whatever settings i input. Kind of like my orbit light does.

 

[jsmkmavity]

I have the same issue with my new orphek, i have no control of the light other than an on/off switch.