Adding a ramp timer

[oreo54]

I heard it well when you proposed a TC-420 for the task :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

I get it though, one is a ready to use package and the other needs some more diy on top.

OK so lets sort of brainstorm your idea for a bit..
So I envision..
1) Lights on a manual on/off timer .
2) Manual dimmers set to a specific level of ones choosing.
3) Power switch to "on"
4) Dimming switch set to "manual"
5) new micro-controller goes in-between manual dimmer output to driver

Software needs to detect PWM voltage out and respond with a PWM ramp function for a set amount of minutes.
My esp32 based driver/dimmer boards ramps any change in a 15min increment.

How does one "sense" dusk time?
One could set an"on time duration" but that involves 1) a way to program it manually or 2) set and forget time period of 8, 10, 12 hours.Which one is stuck with unless you access the programming.
Cycle ends abruptly at timer off time.

What microcontroller would one use?
And how do you program it to detect voltage. Current would work as well though it's probably like 20-40mA at best.
I suppose another esp board?

There is a completely "wrong" way to do all this quite easily. People have used dimmable smart plugs to actually dim constant current led aquarium lights..
It's bizarre and completely WRONG but for some reason it seems to work.
I'm now on my second year of figuring out why and what repercussions it could have.
See it's just turning the LINE voltage on/off. I have no other explanation for it.
I personally frown upon it. Led drivers are not meant to have the AC side "pulsed" unless designed for it (like household led light bulbs designed for triac dimming)

 

[DanyL]

OK so lets sort of brainstorm your idea for a bit..
So I envision..
1) Lights on a manual on/off timer .
2) Manual dimmers set to a specific level of ones choosing.
3) Power switch to "on"
4) Dimming switch set to "manual"
5) new micro-controller goes in-between manual dimmer output to driver

Software needs to detect PWM voltage out and respond with a PWM ramp function for a set amount of minutes.
My esp32 based driver/dimmer boards ramps any change in a 15min increment.

How does one "sense" dusk time?
One could set an"on time duration" but that involves 1) a way to program it manually or 2) set and forget time period of 8, 10, 12 hours.Which one is stuck with unless you access the programming.
Cycle ends abruptly at timer off time.

What microcontroller would one use?
And how do you program it to detect voltage. Current would work as well though it's probably like 20-40mA at best.
I suppose another esp board?

There is a completely "wrong" way to do all this quite easily. People have used dimmable smart plugs to actually dim constant current led aquarium lights..
It's bizarre and completely WRONG but for some reason it seems to work.
I'm now on my second year of figuring out why and what repercussions it could have.
See it's just turning the LINE voltage on/off. I have no other explanation for it.
I personally frown upon it. Led drivers are not meant to have the AC side "pulsed" unless designed for it (like household led light bulbs designed for triac dimming)

I thoguht of doing it a lot more abstracted than this.

Think about it more like a MITM attack:
1. You get a PWM signal for a channel
2. You decode it using the pulse counter on an esp32 (PCNT)
3. Determine the channel percentage (needs reversing)
4. Generate a new signal that ramps from current channel percentage to new channel percentage.
5. Repeat.

Since you already know what is the current percentage (because you are generating it), and you are aware of the new one - you don’t really need to consider what time it is, because you only care about generating the ramp from one point to the other.

This also preserves the built in functionality.
The only thing that will need programming or some kind of bt/wifi interface is the ramp duration.

The downside of this approach is that the ramp duration will be fixed across changes.
But I don’t think it will matter much for OP (unless it is of course).

As for wether it is the wrong or the right way to achieve it - I think it’s a fine hack, it isn’t exploiting some undefined behavior but rather implements a certain functionality in a similar way that it would’ve be implemented if it was built in, just externally.

And no, I’ve never even heard of controlling LEDs with AC dimmers outside of those that are built to work with them. No idea how this black magic even works. It’s not supposed to.

 

[pooootiqe]

Here's a dumb idea...

What if you hook up two digital potentiometers in place of the dimming knobs and use a small MCU with RTC to control the "manual dimming"?

 

[DanyL]

Here's a dumb idea...

What if you hook up two digital potentiometers in place of the dimming knobs and use a small MCU with RTC to control the "manual dimming"?

Not a dumb idea at all.
The downside of this approach is that it will take away the current functionality, and you will have to implement everything from scratch, including the scheduler, and at this point it would be easier to simply use a TC-420 like Oreo suggested.

 

[jsmkmavity]

So is this the microcontroller?

 

[DanyL]

So is this the microcontroller?

Yes, it’s an ESP8266 based development board.

 

[jsmkmavity]

It only has 2 wires going to it from the switch,
2 wires going to the dimmers and 2 wires going to the 12w-12v board.
Am i right in assuming its capable of way more than it is hooked up for now?

 

[jsmkmavity]

I just noticed it has a micro usb connecter on one end

 

[oreo54]

I just noticed it has a micro usb connecter on one end

Yea the other side ..
Wifi antenna on top.

 

[jsmkmavity]

Cool! I just unscrewed it from the base and turned it over and it does have the antenna!

 

[jsmkmavity]

The light dimmer knobs only turn no push button function which i think is how it would switch between settings if it was setup for manual programming.

 

[DanyL]

It only has 2 wires going to it from the switch,
2 wires going to the dimmers and 2 wires going to the 12w-12v board.
Am i right in assuming its capable of way more than it is hooked up for now?

Yes, it’s likely an overkill for what it’s being used for, unless it also utilizes the wifi functionality.

 

[DanyL]

I just noticed it has a micro usb connecter on one end

Yup. That’s how you can reprogram it and also access its serial port for debugging.

 

[jsmkmavity]

So i do have a laptop. It is probably at least 3-5 years old. I dont connect it to the internet. My dad updated it a year or 2 ago for me. It is intentionally a stand alone unconnected laptop. Would that work to program the esp8266 with a cord?

 

[jsmkmavity]

I am going to plug in power to the light and see if it will connect to my phone

 

[DanyL]

So i do have a laptop. It is probably at least 3-5 years old. I dont connect it to the internet. My dad updated it a year or 2 ago for me. It is intentionally a stand alone unconnected laptop. Would that work to program the esp8266 with a cord?

You will have to install a driver for the usb controller, and at the very least a toolchain to be able to compile code and reprogram it.

If it’s a Linux/macOS machine than you can access the serial port without additional tools, but for windows you’ll also need a serial client (unless I’m not aware and they added one built in?)

 

[jsmkmavity]

Its a lenovo solid state

 

[jsmkmavity]

The phone isnt finding a wifi for the light. What would it likely be named?

 

[jsmkmavity]

Would it need power applied to one of the other pins for the wifi to work?

 

[DanyL]

Its a lenovo solid state

It’s a windows machine. You will also need a tool like PuTTY for serial access. Not sure if esp toolchains come with any of their own. They might.

The phone isnt finding a wifi for the light. What would it likely be named?

Might start with “ESP”
But it depends if they changed the default auto generated name or not.

If you don’t see anything, it may need to be first enabled through the physical interface on the fixture itself.