Advice: Hypo in DT or QT all fish in Copper Power

[ti_lavender]

A few months back I started a 110 gallon and used 40 pounds of ocean sourced live rock. Well 2 days ago I noticed a few spots on my white tail tang. The fish came from an LFS where it’s been in their coral system. It was my first fish in the tank and I got it more than a month ago. Other fish have been pre quarantined or from Biota. Anyways I’m looking for advice.

The tank has:
(1) white tail tang
(1) baby yellow yang
(1) baby multi bar
(1) baby coral beauty
(1) baby mandarin
(1) baby regal
(1) Royal gramma
(2) small blotchy anthias
(3) mollies and a handful of babies

The 2 tangs are the only ones showing signs of ich. All fish are eating pellets vigorously.

I bought a 100 gallon stock tank for QT but I’m wondering am I better off running hypo salinity on the DT and just move the rock and inverts to the stock tank?
Or do I move all the fish to a stock tank and treat with copper power? I have bio filters ready to setup the QT tank. My concern with this route is the small biota fish not doing well with Copper Power.

I’m definitely feeling overwhelmed so help is appreciated.

 

[sc50964]

are you planning to have coral?

 

[ti_lavender]

are you planning to have coral?

Yep!

 

[sc50964]

Yep!

Then set up your QT ASAP and put all of them through copper power or safe at 2ppm for 30 days

 

[vetteguy53081]

A few months back I started a 110 gallon and used 40 pounds of ocean sourced live rock. Well 2 days ago I noticed a few spots on my white tail tang. The fish came from an LFS where it’s been in their coral system. It was my first fish in the tank and I got it more than a month ago. Other fish have been pre quarantined or from Biota. Anyways I’m looking for advice.

The tank has:
(1) white tail tang
(1) baby yellow yang
(1) baby multi bar
(1) baby coral beauty
(1) baby mandarin
(1) baby regal
(1) Royal gramma
(2) small blotchy anthias
(3) mollies and a handful of babies

The 2 tangs are the only ones showing signs of ich. All fish are eating pellets vigorously.

I bought a 100 gallon stock tank for QT but I’m wondering am I better off running hypo salinity on the DT and just move the rock and inverts to the stock tank?
Or do I move all the fish to a stock tank and treat with copper power? I have bio filters ready to setup the QT tank. My concern with this route is the small biota fish not doing well with Copper Power.

I’m definitely feeling overwhelmed so help is appreciated.

With prequrantined fish, assume they have something. You can do a short quarantine cycle of 14-21 days to assure they are free of foreign issues such as ich.
It’s easier to perform this now than to try and catch these fish later and have to do treatment and leave display tank free of fish for 6-8 weeks
Coppersafe at 2.25-2.5 monitored by a reliable test kit for copper is recommended

 

[Jay Hemdal]

A few months back I started a 110 gallon and used 40 pounds of ocean sourced live rock. Well 2 days ago I noticed a few spots on my white tail tang. The fish came from an LFS where it’s been in their coral system. It was my first fish in the tank and I got it more than a month ago. Other fish have been pre quarantined or from Biota. Anyways I’m looking for advice.

The tank has:
(1) white tail tang
(1) baby yellow yang
(1) baby multi bar
(1) baby coral beauty
(1) baby mandarin
(1) baby regal
(1) Royal gramma
(2) small blotchy anthias
(3) mollies and a handful of babies

The 2 tangs are the only ones showing signs of ich. All fish are eating pellets vigorously.

I bought a 100 gallon stock tank for QT but I’m wondering am I better off running hypo salinity on the DT and just move the rock and inverts to the stock tank?
Or do I move all the fish to a stock tank and treat with copper power? I have bio filters ready to setup the QT tank. My concern with this route is the small biota fish not doing well with Copper Power.

I’m definitely feeling overwhelmed so help is appreciated.

First thing is to 100% confirm that this is Cryptocaryon, marine ich. If you are certain, then proceed, otherwise, you should do some more investigation before pulling the trigger on any treatment.

Everyone has some difficulty identifying ich when it first starts up. I suggest people prepare for the worst by getting a plan ready, but then to watch the fish for definitive signs: small, salt sized white spots on the body (and fins!) that come an go each day, changing location, but with a generally increasing number. The spots will also spread to other fish. Then, if you confirmed ich, you'll need to act swiftly.

IMO - given the value of the fish, the presence of the mandarin and the small size of the fish, you will be better off running hyposalinity in the DT than pulling the fish into a brand new QT and treating with copper. I'm a strong proponent for coppersafe, but moving high value fish to a brand new tank is very difficult in terms of ammonia control.

If you do go with hypo, don't move all of the rock, select any with less growth on it, but leave it behind to serve as passive biofiltration.

Here is a thread on hyposalinity:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[sc50964]

First thing is to 100% confirm that this is Cryptocaryon, marine ich. If you are certain, then proceed, otherwise, you should do some more investigation before pulling the trigger on any treatment.

Everyone has some difficulty identifying ich when it first starts up. I suggest people prepare for the worst by getting a plan ready, but then to watch the fish for definitive signs: small, salt sized white spots on the body (and fins!) that come an go each day, changing location, but with a generally increasing number. The spots will also spread to other fish. Then, if you confirmed ich, you'll need to act swiftly.

IMO - given the value of the fish, the presence of the mandarin and the small size of the fish, you will be better off running hyposalinity in the DT than pulling the fish into a brand new QT and treating with copper. I'm a strong proponent for coppersafe, but moving high value fish to a brand new tank is very difficult in terms of ammonia control.

If you do go with hypo, don't move all of the rock, select any with less growth on it, but leave it behind to serve as passive biofiltration.

Here is a thread on hyposalinity:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

I had the same thought but hypo IME requires more precise monitoring on a daily basis and a much smaller error band than copper.

How about the use of hydrogen peroxide in DT? I heard that’s an old school method.

 

[ti_lavender]

First thing is to 100% confirm that this is Cryptocaryon, marine ich. If you are certain, then proceed, otherwise, you should do some more investigation before pulling the trigger on any treatment.

Everyone has some difficulty identifying ich when it first starts up. I suggest people prepare for the worst by getting a plan ready, but then to watch the fish for definitive signs: small, salt sized white spots on the body (and fins!) that come an go each day, changing location, but with a generally increasing number. The spots will also spread to other fish. Then, if you confirmed ich, you'll need to act swiftly.

Thank you @Jay Hemdal this is very helpful. I'm going to try and post some pics in white light once the lights have been on for a little bit. Under the early morning blues the spots look different (less severe) than yesterday. But you're right in that I shouldn't do anything until I can confirm what disease/parasite I'm treating.

 

[ti_lavender]

I had the same thought but hypo IME requires more precise monitoring on a daily basis and a much smaller error band than copper.

How about the use of hydrogen peroxide in DT? I heard that’s an old school method.

I work from home and this tank is in my office. It also has an apex with the salinity probe. While not reliable I can see trends. And spot measure with a Milwaukee refractometer. But I can monitor and make sure the proper salinity is maintained.

 

[MnFish1]

I had the same thought but hypo IME requires more precise monitoring on a daily basis and a much smaller error band than copper.

How about the use of hydrogen peroxide in DT? I heard that’s an old school method.

I don't know if this is in disagreement with anyone - so sorry if so - I would consider that a separate copper tank is better than hypo salinity - only because you got ocean sourced rock - which (unless you bleached it or did something to it) - will have a large amount of life that may be killed with hypo salinity.

 

[ti_lavender]

I’m going to remove the ocean rock and place in a separate tank to run fallow.

 

[ti_lavender]

@Jay Hemdal here are some pics from a few moments ago. Let me know if you think this is, in fact, marine ich. So far only the 2 tangs are showing the signs. All other fish are acting normal and all of them had strong appetites in the AM feeding.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I had the same thought but hypo IME requires more precise monitoring on a daily basis and a much smaller error band than copper.

How about the use of hydrogen peroxide in DT? I heard that’s an old school method.

Hydrogen peroxide gets over-prescribed, mostly because everyone has access to it. Trouble is, it is pretty tough on shrimp, and the dose that kills protozoans is very near the dose that will kill the beneficial bacteria.

The biggest issue is that the amount of reactive peroxide in the water is wholly dependent on the amount of organics it contains - the more organics the peroxide has to react with, the more of it gets used up before it can effectively control the fish diseases. Water Works makes a low range peroxide test - that can be used to measure the amount of unreacted peroxide still in the water, and is really the only way to accurately control the dose.

Jay

 

[bshonesy]

Hydrogen peroxide gets over-prescribed, mostly because everyone has access to it. Trouble is, it is pretty tough on shrimp, and the dose that kills protozoans is very near the dose that will kill the beneficial bacteria.

The biggest issue is that the amount of reactive peroxide in the water is wholly dependent on the amount of organics it contains - the more organics the peroxide has to react with, the more of it gets used up before it can effectively control the fish diseases. Water Works makes a low range peroxide test - that can be used to measure the amount of unreacted peroxide still in the water, and is really the only way to accurately control the dose.

Jay

Hydrogen peroxide gets over-prescribed, mostly because everyone has access to it. Trouble is, it is pretty tough on shrimp, and the dose that kills protozoans is very near the dose that will kill the beneficial bacteria.

The biggest issue is that the amount of reactive peroxide in the water is wholly dependent on the amount of organics it contains - the more organics the peroxide has to react with, the more of it gets used up before it can effectively control the fish diseases. Water Works makes a low range peroxide test - that can be used to measure the amount of unreacted peroxide still in the water, and is really the only way to accurately control the dose.

Jay

And what is the concentration to aim for for protozoan control if using peroxide and your recommended test kit?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

And what is the concentration to aim for for protozoan control if using peroxide and your recommended test kit?

Well, that's the issue. Nobody really knows. We do know that above around 7 to 10 ppm, peroxide begins to cause unwanted changes in aquariums (killing off the biofilter, killing shrimp, etc.).

My suggestion is to dose at 5 ppm, and then monitor the active level with a test kit to maintain that level. For 3% peroxide, that is 6.3 ml per ten gallons of aquarium water. One of the R2R fish medics developed a calculator that works well for these calculations:

Fish Disease Calculators

During the course of caring for our fish, we often need to make calculations regarding several recommended treatment options. Most water quality maintenance steps are supported by calculations provided in the "Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes Farley" forum. Taking it a step further, additional...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[ti_lavender]

Follow up: I ended up catching all the fish and transferring to a 100 gallon stock tank that I've started copper power on. I lost the regal 2 weeks ago due to a house sitter feeding too much in the acclimation box (maybe a localized ammonia spike). So my most sensitive fish is the mandarin which is eating pellets. Hopefully they all do well in the stock tank while the tank sits fallow.

For the stock tank setup I used a canister filter that has Marine Pure media from my nano and the DT. There's also a sponge filter from my smaller QT setup in there. I'm hoping between those two there should be enough nitrifying bacteria. I also have a gallon of Fritz Zyme9 that I've been adding.

Thanks for your help!