AFR By the 5 gal bucket now?

[Nor'easter Reefer]

So i was planning to swap away from AFR due to the price, coupled with the issue of my calcium always running way too high. Now I got an email that I can buy something like 15kg for $299? The cost thing has now seemingly gone out the window for the most part. That said, unless i'm missing something, i'm probably still bound to change things up due to my calcium correct? There's nothing I could add to precipitate solely calcium or something along those lines is there? Im not super consistent with WC so I suppose i could try working kn that to see if that keeps it in check, but my calcium loves to creep up and up and up and i'm constantly skipping all for reef doses, and using a DIY alk supplement till my calcium starts to get to the lower end of the acceptable range, then starting AFR again. This is getting old. Currently dose around 6,900ml of kalk and 100ml of all for reef a day. Was planning to swap to 2 part in the near future but now unsure. I do love the simplicity of all for reef, but I like the versatility of individual supplements. Any thoughts/advice?

Thanks!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So i was planning to swap away from AFR due to the price, coupled with the issue of my calcium always running way too high. Now I got an email that I can buy something like 15kg for $299? The cost thing has now seemingly gone out the window for the most part. That said, unless i'm missing something, i'm probably still bound to change things up due to my calcium correct? There's nothing I could add to precipitate solely calcium or something along those lines is there? Im not super consistent with WC so I suppose i could try working kn that to see if that keeps it in check, but my calcium loves to creep up and up and up and i'm constantly skipping all for reef doses, and using a DIY alk supplement till my calcium starts to get to the lower end of the acceptable range, then starting AFR again. This is getting old. Currently dose around 6,900ml of kalk and 100ml of all for reef a day. Was planning to swap to 2 part in the near future but now unsure. I do love the simplicity of all for reef, but I like the versatility of individual supplements. Any thoughts/advice?

Thanks!

Not sure what you mean, but I plan to use just AFR long term. The alk to calcium ratio is identical to kalkwasser, and folks do not seem to agonize over using it.

Is your calcium excessively high right now?

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Not sure what you mean, but I plan to use just AFR long term. The alk to calcium ratio is identical to kalkwasser, and folks do not seem to agonize over using it.

Is your calcium excessively high right now?

It constantly creeps up. I have to actively try and intervene to keep it under 500

 

[BryanM]

It constantly creeps up. I have to actively try and intervene to keep it under 500

This is why I switched from AFR to something else. If you keep alk stable with AFR, at least in my tank, I got up to 640 calc in about 1.5 years (maintaining alk at 9)

 

[exnisstech]

I hear often about calcium creeping up using AFR but I have not experienced that. I don't know why unless it's my random 4g water changes I do? Tank is 65g
AFR only for almost 3 years. Calcium tested with salifert.

 

[areefer01]

So i was planning to swap away from AFR due to the price, coupled with the issue of my calcium always running way too high. Now I got an email that I can buy something like 15kg for $299? The cost thing has now seemingly gone out the window for the most part. That said, unless i'm missing something, i'm probably still bound to change things up due to my calcium correct? There's nothing I could add to precipitate solely calcium or something along those lines is there? Im not super consistent with WC so I suppose i could try working kn that to see if that keeps it in check, but my calcium loves to creep up and up and up and i'm constantly skipping all for reef doses, and using a DIY alk supplement till my calcium starts to get to the lower end of the acceptable range, then starting AFR again. This is getting old. Currently dose around 6,900ml of kalk and 100ml of all for reef a day. Was planning to swap to 2 part in the near future but now unsure. I do love the simplicity of all for reef, but I like the versatility of individual supplements. Any thoughts/advice?

Thanks!

There is a 5 gallon bucket but it is geared towards LFS and aquaculture. Not traditional hobbyist. Also Tropic Marin had mentioned that it is not a cost safer. Edit 1: I updated my post, it does appear to be a cost saver if the cost is actually 300 USD.

If you know your daily dose it is easy to calculate the yearly cost using a 1600 g container. It goes for 74 USD pre tax, shipping and makes 10 liters.

If you have a high demand system do some math, find out what your threshold is, then decide. You can stretch it easy enough by dosing Kalkwasser and then adjust your daily AFR dose to extend it. A few people here do that regularly without issues. Worth noting that AFR and the Kalkwasser are not mixed or combined and dosed seperatly.

With regards to Calcium building up over time a few hobbyist have observed this, myself included, but that is typically when no water changes are being done. I see it when my time between water changes increases. I do not see it when I do one a month. Your mileage may vary of course.

TL; DR - the price is remaining constant for what it does. Easy to calculate yearly operating cost. Find your limit. Include dosing Kalkwasser if that is an option. AFR is a pretty affordable all in one solution and many hobbyist use it with large mixed or SPS dominated systems.

Edit:

I see it available at saltwateaquarium for 299.99 (notify me when in stock though). Because math is fun and I was curious lets see how this works the bucket is cheaper. Assuming a hobbyist can get it.

This is assuming my math is correct ...

Product	Total Weight (g)	Total Cost ($ USD)	Total Yield (L)	Cost Per Liter	Cost Per Gram
1.6 kg powder	1600	75	10	7.5	$0.05
15 kg bucket	15000	300	93.75	3.2	$0.02

 

[Justfebreezeit]

Using afr for two years. Bi weekly 10% water changes and calcium hovers in the low 400s

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It constantly creeps up. I have to actively try and intervene to keep it under 500

IMO, it’s ok to let it creep up into the mid to upper 500’s.

 

[RoanokeReef]

Seems like a good deal to me. Would take me almost 5 years at my current dosing rate to use it all.

 

[RobertK]

Pardon my ignorance but why are you using both AFR and kalk? I thought AFR was supposed to be a stand alone supplement. Could that be part of the problem you are having? I have just started using AFR after using 2 part or 3 part for many years and don't know all the pros and cons of using it.

 

[dpoltsdsu]

That's awesome

 

[areefer01]

Pardon my ignorance but why are you using both AFR and kalk? I thought AFR was supposed to be a stand alone supplement. Could that be part of the problem you are having? I have just started using AFR after using 2 part or 3 part for many years and don't know all the pros and cons of using it.

I don't believe the OP said that.

I said some hobbyist who have high demand tanks yet use All For Reef will supplement with Kalkwasser to extend the use per container of All For Reef. This lowers the cost not increasing the AFR dose to meet demand. Kalkwasser is doing some work then AFR follows along and does it.

Some hobbyist also want the ph boost of Kwalkwasser so there is that.

 

[PPBlimpy]

spit balling here, I have never used AFR but could you reduce the AFR dose enough to stabilize your Cal demand to where you want it and then supplement dose your ALK with something like sodium bicarbonate?

yes you are now dosing 2 things.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Could that be part of the problem you are having? I have just started using AFR after using 2 part or 3 part for many years and don't know all the pros and cons of using it

AFR and kalkwasser have identical alk to calcium ratios, which exactly match pure calcium carbonate.

But since the calcium carbonate deposited in reef tanks has some magnesium and a small amount of strontium in place of some of the calcium, there is a slight excess of calcium in these products if used to maintain alk.

Water changes can keep that in check, especially using a lower calcium mix. In the absence of water changes, one may need to use a pure alk supplement on occasion to solve the imbalance.

But to the point in the quote, using both neither helps nor hurts the imbalance. It’s the same exact imbalance.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

spit balling here, I have never used AFR but could you reduce the AFR dose enough to stabilize your Cal demand to where you want it and then supplement dose your ALK with something like sodium bicarbonate?

yes you are now dosing 2 things.

Yes. That is a fine plan for those not doing water changes.

 

[mmorrison55]

I started dosing Kalk mostly to help me with my low ph. I guess it also maybe had an affect on my alk reading… idk. I also dose AFR for keeping my alk, ca, and mg in my desired range.

I don’t seem to have any issues with dosing both.

I use a Neptune trident to monitor, and test every few months to make sure the trident is close to the Hannah checkers.

 

[BryanM]

FWIW, even at +600 calc I didnt see adverse effects, I just didn't like it, and I'm not a water change kind of guy, so it was just getting worse and worse over time.

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

IMO, it’s ok to let it creep up into the mid to upper 500’s.

Oh? I start panicking around 480

 

[Nor'easter Reefer]

Pardon my ignorance but why are you using both AFR and kalk? I thought AFR was supposed to be a stand alone supplement. Could that be part of the problem you are having? I have just started using AFR after using 2 part or 3 part for many years and don't know all the pros and cons of using it.

I have a basement sump, which are notorious for low ph issues, and without using kalkwasser my ph barely got into the 8 range during the day and dropped past 7.7 at night. Upon starting a kalk dose(i literally dose as much as possible and then top off the rest of my alk consumption with AFR) my polyp extension, that was near non-existent improved by a huge margin, and my growth rate exploded. Literally added that kalk, and cut my AFR down like 30ml a day. Which i set my dose based on a post by @Randy Holmes-Farley about the conversion rate. Within a few weeks my AFR was already back up to 85ml per day. I also dose traces bks TM A and K

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Oh? I start panicking around 480

Some salt mixes have started in the 500’s.