AIO tank with cryptic zone-like bottom

SamiBlue

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Okay so today I found out that cryptic sumps and refugiums are a thing and I love the idea of keeping sponges/tunicates. I've also been fighting about whether or not I should add sand in my future 30 gallon tank for the buffer and filtration benefits. in my 10 gallon I have a bit of rock rubble and have noticed how it acts as a refuge area for my pods. I was wondering if I added a couple inches of rubble to my 30 gallon with an undergravel filter beneath it but use a pump instead of an air stone so it will flow backwards to keep debris from building up would function almost like a cryptic fuge.

The main reason I want to do this though is because I'm pretty much on my own when it has anything to do with my hobbies and I don't have the space to add a whole other tank. My mother is barely allowing me to have a saltwater tank as it is so I have to keep it as AIO as possible [emoji13]

Any advice or suggestions??
 

garbled

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Steve Tyree wrote what I felt was an amazing book on this subject called The Environmental Gradient. The long and short of what his method was, was a completely dark zone, with very low flow, and lots of rubble. IIRC, one of his suggestions was a 5 gallon bucket with lid and a slow flow of water into it. (Filled with rock of course) One of the critical points he made was no air bubbles, because they would get stuck in the sponges and tunicates.
 
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SamiBlue

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Steve Tyree wrote what I felt was an amazing book on this subject called The Environmental Gradient. The long and short of what his method was, was a completely dark zone, with very low flow, and lots of rubble. IIRC, one of his suggestions was a 5 gallon bucket with lid and a slow flow of water into it. (Filled with rock of course) One of the critical points he made was no air bubbles, because they would get stuck in the sponges and tunicates.
Thanks I'll have to order that book! I was considering the container method but I wanted a chance to see what cool sponges would grow. I was considering making a plenum kind of space under all of the rubble but leave a small opening towards the back so I could slip in a small pump that was reused from a little dog bowl water fountain and has a switch on the side that would make it half strength, so it wouldn't be too strong. And I could try to modify it to cut the flow even more if I needed to. As far as bubbles though if I use reverse flow with a pump it shouldn't be a problem right?
 

garbled

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Shouldn't be an issue, just make sure that little pump can survive saltwater. Not all can. What is important is to have lots of surfaces for the organisims to grow on. If you just have a big empty plenum, you won't have much growing in it.

If you wanted to see your stuff, maybe you could use some kind of clear container with a lid, and then maybe put a black sleeve or blanket over it, so you could take it off and see it from time to time? The critical thing is that you not let light in there, so if you have an open plenum you can see from the sides, the light will travel down the glass, and mess it up. The things like algae, etc outcompete sponges when light is present.
 
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SamiBlue

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Shouldn't be an issue, just make sure that little pump can survive saltwater. Not all can. What is important is to have lots of surfaces for the organisims to grow on. If you just have a big empty plenum, you won't have much growing in it.

If you wanted to see your stuff, maybe you could use some kind of clear container with a lid, and then maybe put a black sleeve or blanket over it, so you could take it off and see it from time to time? The critical thing is that you not let light in there, so if you have an open plenum you can see from the sides, the light will travel down the glass, and mess it up. The things like algae, etc outcompete sponges when light is present.
So should I scrap the idea and just put rubble in something like a Tupperware container for my cryptic zone?
 

garbled

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Unless you can keep the the area completely dark, I wouldn't do the plenum. It would do no harm to your tank, but I don't think it will be efficient at growing what you want to grow in there. Remember that light also travels down the thickness of the glass, which is why you see an algae line 1-2 inches below the surface of a sandbed on the front of the aquarium. This totally depends on where that plenum is, I can't see your tank, but just be aware of where light will actually get.

All that being said, you will grow things down there. It will have diversity of fauna that will not proliferate in the upper areas, because it will be mostly dark, so you still might get some cool stuff down there. It would probably become a little pod/worm farm for you.
 
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SamiBlue

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Ok so it wouldn't be very cryptic but a reverse UG filter with rubble will make a dark"er" zone. What if I painted a HOB breeder black and made sure the bubbler that creates a vacuum and a little flow didn't get any bubbles into the chamber with something like a filter sponge?
 

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What you might want to do is find some sponges that are semi cryptic. Sometimes they can be found on live rock. Most times it looks like a slime coating. I mostly see blue ones. You might message Steve Tyree and ask what he has avail at his facility in Texas. You could make a small cave like structure with some rock and a flat piece that would cover it. Would get some light so semi cryptic. Remember most sponges can not be exposed to the air at any time.
 

NS Mike D

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I made an egg crate box and filled it with rubble rock in my sump thinking of setting up a cryptic zone. I couldn't help myself and topped in with cheato and DIY LEDS, so now it's a semi cryptic zone. I have no clue whats going on down there, it's been 8 months. It's about time for me to contact steve tyree and order some bits to seed it to go along with whatever took hold down there.

I have a 29 gallon DT. I kept the 5 gal HOB fuge packed with cheato and in February made a DIY sump out of a 10 gal standard petco tank I do not run a skimmer.

I can't say for sure if the zone is working, but I like the idea of different zones inter connected. It was the tyree threads that peaked my interest
 
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SamiBlue

SamiBlue

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What you might want to do is find some sponges that are semi cryptic. Sometimes they can be found on live rock. Most times it looks like a slime coating. I mostly see blue ones. You might message Steve Tyree and ask what he has avail at his facility in Texas. You could make a small cave like structure with some rock and a flat piece that would cover it. Would get some light so semi cryptic. Remember most sponges can not be exposed to the air at any time.
I'll definitely message him once it's set up. I think I'm going to try a little of both with the UG and rubble and then do a mini sump using a large cereal bin painted black with super slow flow
 

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