AIO Vs Sump

[sas226]

HI Everyone,

I am currently looking at either a waterbox AIO or a WB Marine X 60.2.

My current decision is at a standstill. I am going to be moving in a few years, but will be looking to do a 100+ gallon tank when I move into my final home, but until then I have a 46 gallon bow front tank and am looking to upgrade to a better system.

The questions I have:
AIO: Pricing with stands and AI Prime lights: (AIO 35.2 gallon $1015 - AIO 50.3 $1541) for the 50 gallon would potential build stand and price would be $1042.
What is a good skimmer for it?
I have heard you can run a sump?
Will I get good results with water quality ETC with the AIO filtration?
What are peoples thoughts on the AIO? Is it easier/better for a smaller system?

Marine X 60.2: (36 gallon display and 18 gallon display Price: $1217)
Is it better to have a sump and run a skimmer on this?
Will I get better water quality with the sump filtration?


For corals I would be looking to do softies/LPS/ MAYBE SPS if SPS it would be very limited.

What would be the better buy and get the best results for corals. It would be a mixed reef, but looking for best results for corals.

Any feedback is very helpful!

I've had both AIO, and in-stand sumps. For me, it's in stand hands down. The space even in big AIO's is just a pain in the butt. A pain to clean, a pain to find equipment that fits. Just a pain.

Okay, so few things, I went with two systems with a similar display size, Waterboxs naming system can be a little tricky at times.

• AIO (Waterbox 50.3) Price: $1,108
  • Dimensions: 35.4"×19.7"×17.7" (Reality it's 35.4"×15"×17.7" because you're sump takes up 4.7" of the back wall the entire length of the tank.)
  • Total volume: 50g (Remember part of that is sump space so you might like 10-20% to that)
  • Cons:
    • Limited Sump space, lose a lot of the volume of the tank to "sump area". Limited equipment choices, want to run a reactor? Good luck, want to run anything but a nano skimmer? Good luck. Refugium? Good luck. you can do these things but it's absolutely more effort than an in stand sump.
    • Cleaning is a pain. The tank stand at 53" tall total with cabinet. You'll have to yank all equipment out and then get a step ladder unless you're huge to be able to see and thoroughly clear the sump every time
  • Pros:
    • Don't have to worry about plumbing. Maybe less noise. A lot more "simple" from a parts standpoint.

• In Stand (Waterbox 90.4 Marine X) Price $1,499
  • Dimensions: Display: 35.4"×19.7"×21.7" (You get all this space minus a little for the overflow in the center), Sump: 28.3"×15"×15"
  • Total Volume: 85g (50g display, 25g sump) This is a similar sized display with the addition of the sump. Figured you'd want to compare that to comparing volume. if that's an issue you're gonna have to go down to a significantly smaller display for an in-stand sump.
  • Cons:
    • More water volume? (Some people don't want the work?)
    • More expensive.
    • Maybe more noise? Although Waterbox tanks come with herbie overflows and gate valves so they should be near silent.
    • Equipment will cost more albeit by a very small margin in my opinion, 10-15% if that and on most things probably wouldn't see an increase in price.
  • Pros:
    • Opens open a plethora of equipment options like a full size skimmer, reactors, refugium can be done easier, more room for heaters. (Anyone with an AIO can tell you the pain of getting a heater that fits)
    • More water volume? More stability
    • Full size display
    • Waterbox sumps have built in Top off tank in the Marine X series.
    • Easier cleaning. Sump is nice and low lets you clean everything easily, no need to be an NBA player or have a lader to clean deep in the AIO sump.

About 8 years ago I had two in stand tanks. I recently setup an AIO.. I dislike it immensely. So much to the point that I just bought the 90.3 I was talking about.

As for your other questions should you decided on an AIO. You can run a skimmer for an in-sump for an AIO your best bet is probably something in the tunze line like a commline 9004 or something like that. You can't run a sump on the AIO unless you drill the glass and I'm almost 100% sure drilling the glass on one of those would A: void warranty, B: Crack the glass beyond repair and C: Just not be worth it.. unless you ran a HOB overflow. In which case you're going end up spending the money you saved by goin AIO just to get to the same place and it'll be a lot more janky.

Your water quality can be great with an AIO filtration, I wouldn't worry about that. It all depends on the factors above. Like I said, I prefer in stand sump just because the AIOs limit everything about your tank. Cleaning, equipment.. expansion for everything. It's just a pain. Regardless you can achieve great results with either. This forum is full of examples of both. It comes down to what you want.

 

[sas226]

What a coincident. I am too considering the Waterbox AIO or the newly release Marine X. I'm leaning toward AIO since there is less change of leaks etc. I like the AIO 65.4 dimension ~48x20. I would think the longer than allow for more swimming room.

Here is the equipment i plan on buying for my build

Waterbox AIO 65.4
Tunze 9012 DC
Sicce Pro 550gph return
2X Hydor Koralia Nano 565gph for water movement

40lb dry marcorock
40lb Caribsea arag-alive

I'm deciding if i should pull the trigger now, or wait till Black Friday.

I'm planning a FOWLR tank, so i don;t need a high power light. I may start with cheap LED for now, and upgrade later.

let me know which tank you end up with and the equipment choice

Just a heads up Waterbox's Black Friday sale is actually called Blue friday, and it's the first week of November I think? I have a couple family members and friends buying new tanks that week so they won't let me forget. Just so you don't miss it.

 

[Corgigirl]

I've had both AIO, and in-stand sumps. For me, it's in stand hands down. The space even in big AIO's is just a pain in the butt. A pain to clean, a pain to find equipment that fits. Just a pain.

Okay, so few things, I went with two systems with a similar display size, Waterboxs naming system can be a little tricky at times.

• AIO (Waterbox 50.3) Price: $1,108
  • Dimensions: 35.4"×19.7"×17.7" (Reality it's 35.4"×15"×17.7" because you're sump takes up 4.7" of the back wall the entire length of the tank.)
  • Total volume: 50g (Remember part of that is sump space so you might like 10-20% to that)
  • Cons:
    • Limited Sump space, lose a lot of the volume of the tank to "sump area". Limited equipment choices, want to run a reactor? Good luck, want to run anything but a nano skimmer? Good luck. Refugium? Good luck. you can do these things but it's absolutely more effort than an in stand sump.
    • Cleaning is a pain. The tank stand at 53" tall total with cabinet. You'll have to yank all equipment out and then get a step ladder unless you're huge to be able to see and thoroughly clear the sump every time
  • Pros:
    • Don't have to worry about plumbing. Maybe less noise. A lot more "simple" from a parts standpoint.

• In Stand (Waterbox 90.4 Marine X) Price $1,499
  • Dimensions: Display: 35.4"×19.7"×21.7" (You get all this space minus a little for the overflow in the center), Sump: 28.3"×15"×15"
  • Total Volume: 85g (50g display, 25g sump) This is a similar sized display with the addition of the sump. Figured you'd want to compare that to comparing volume. if that's an issue you're gonna have to go down to a significantly smaller display for an in-stand sump.
  • Cons:
    • More water volume? (Some people don't want the work?)
    • More expensive.
    • Maybe more noise? Although Waterbox tanks come with herbie overflows and gate valves so they should be near silent.
    • Equipment will cost more albeit by a very small margin in my opinion, 10-15% if that and on most things probably wouldn't see an increase in price.
  • Pros:
    • Opens open a plethora of equipment options like a full size skimmer, reactors, refugium can be done easier, more room for heaters. (Anyone with an AIO can tell you the pain of getting a heater that fits)
    • More water volume? More stability
    • Full size display
    • Waterbox sumps have built in Top off tank in the Marine X series.
    • Easier cleaning. Sump is nice and low lets you clean everything easily, no need to be an NBA player or have a lader to clean deep in the AIO sump.

About 8 years ago I had two in stand tanks. I recently setup an AIO.. I dislike it immensely. So much to the point that I just bought the 90.3 I was talking about.

As for your other questions should you decided on an AIO. You can run a skimmer for an in-sump for an AIO your best bet is probably something in the tunze line like a commline 9004 or something like that. You can't run a sump on the AIO unless you drill the glass and I'm almost 100% sure drilling the glass on one of those would A: void warranty, B: Crack the glass beyond repair and C: Just not be worth it.. unless you ran a HOB overflow. In which case you're going end up spending the money you saved by goin AIO just to get to the same place and it'll be a lot more janky.

Your water quality can be great with an AIO filtration, I wouldn't worry about that. It all depends on the factors above. Like I said, I prefer in stand sump just because the AIOs limit everything about your tank. Cleaning, equipment.. expansion for everything. It's just a pain. Regardless you can achieve great results with either. This forum is full of examples of both. It comes down to what you want.

I will agree to many of your points about the AIO. In my experience so far though, I’m really pleased with the Red Sea skimmer that comes with the Max 260, love the lights included, AND the tank is predrilled for a sump if I want to add one at a later time. I think it’s a $395 upgrade and comes with all the plumbing and a decent sump set up. I thought I would get my feet wet again with an AIO (I’ve been out of the salt water hobby 8 years or so), and the AIO seemed like a simple way to start back with easy expansion options available. Not sure about the Waterbox AIO though.

 

[sas226]

I will agree to many of your points about the AIO. In my experience so far though, I’m really pleased with the Red Sea skimmer that comes with the Max 260, love the lights included, AND the tank is predrilled for a sump if I want to add one at a later time. I think it’s a $395 upgrade and comes with all the plumbing and a decent sump set up. I thought I would get my feet wet again with an AIO (I’ve been out of the salt water hobby 8 years or so), and the AIO seemed like a simple way to start back with easy expansion options available. Not sure about the Waterbox AIO though.

Yeah, i was just going off the waterbox and my experience (Currently have an IM AIO). Good to know there is that option.

 

[Dcole12]

I have a Red Sea Max 260 AIO, it’s been up and running almost two weeks. I went back and forth too about a sump, almost went with one, then thought for simplicity i would stick with the AIO. So far, I love it, first clown fish pair went in today. The plus to this tank is, it’s set up and drilled for a fuge and sump if I want to add one at any time. I figured this would give me the most flexibility

That is great input the fact that the tank is drilled for the sump! Thanks for that!

 

[92Miata]

Back in my first run through reefing, I had a 20l, a 58, a 72 bow, and a 135 - All with extensive sump systems.

Right now, I have two IM Nuvo Fusion 40 tanks, and an IM Nuvo 10.

It is my opinion that a sump on a tank less than about 150 gallons is a waste of money given today's much better equipment. Its simply not needed. Skimmers, wave pumps, etc are just so good now that there's no need to drastically oversize equipment anymore.


The AIOs are easy to run, they're quiet, they won't leak,and they just plain work. (And they're much nicer tanks than they were a decade ago).


The one issue is that skimmers are a little tough - and the IM skimmers are a dumpster fire. A Tunze 9004 fits fine though, and it does the job.

 

[Dcole12]

Back in my first run through reefing, I had a 20l, a 58, a 72 bow, and a 135 - All with extensive sump systems.

Right now, I have two IM Nuvo Fusion 40 tanks, and an IM Nuvo 10.

It is my opinion that a sump on a tank less than about 150 gallons is a waste of money given today's much better equipment. Its simply not needed. Skimmers, wave pumps, etc are just so good now that there's no need to drastically oversize equipment anymore.


The AIOs are easy to run, they're quiet, they won't leak,and they just plain work. (And they're much nicer tanks than they were a decade ago).


The one issue is that skimmers are a little tough - and the IM skimmers are a dumpster fire. A Tunze 9004 fits fine though, and it does the job.

I really appreciate it! I think I am leaning towards an AIO 50. I believe.. I am not 100% sure yet though.. I am going to be waiting a couple months to buy, but really wanted a good thread with some feedback on both the sump and AIO.

 

[Cell]

Your final build is all but certain to be a sump, so that might be another reason to check out an AIO now. You can have personal experience with both styles.

 

[Bushman]

I'm in an AOI now, having come from several tanks with sumps. While I love the look and convenience of the AOI cube, I miss the extra room the sumps gave me. I have already added a HOB 'fuge, and I'm out of room as far as space goes to add anything else. The skimmer is barely adequate, and me adding a better one would likely mean I'd have to do another HOB variety. Like I said....I'm outta room.

As I sit here I would have to say I won't do another tank without a sump. Added water volume, a place to fit your skimmer, reactor(s), heater, pumps, etc. A lot of positives for the sump if you can swing it.

 

[newfly]

Just pulled the trigger on a waterbox 65.4 AIO during their blue friday sale.

 

[Dcole12]

Just pulled the trigger on a waterbox 65.4 AIO during their blue friday sale.

Oh that is awesome! I actually got the 20 gallon cube! I wanted to go bigger, but in a couple years after I buy my final hours going to probably get the Marine X 110. Something around that. Do you think you are going to be getting a protein skimmer?

 

[newfly]

Tunze 9004 dc. I like the larger 9012 better but I have to do some modifications for it to fit in the rear chamber . 9004 should just fit as is.

it’s a little undersize. Let’s see how it work . I think skimmer is just 1mechanism to export nutrition. I don’t have a skimmer now and it works well with just water change and cleaning the mechanical media.
Besides from what I read, slightly under size skimmer is actually easier to tune. I read a couple of review that ppl are having success with 9004dc running at 50% speed for 40g tank. I am hoping 100% speed for a 50ish gallon is a good fit.

it’s impossible to get a new tunze 9004 nowadays. I picked up a used one. Worst case I can resell it if it’s not working in my setup.

 

[Dcole12]

Yes, definitely! I know there is always

Tunze 9004 dc. I like the larger 9012 better but I have to do some modifications for it to fit in the rear chamber . 9004 should just fit as is.

it’s a little undersize. Let’s see how it work . I think skimmer is just 1mechanism to export nutrition. I don’t have a skimmer now and it works well with just water change and cleaning the mechanical media.
Besides from what I read, slightly under size skimmer is actually easier to tune. I read a couple of review that ppl are having success with 9004dc running at 50% speed for 40g tank. I am hoping 100% speed for a 50ish gallon is a good fit.

it’s impossible to get a new tunze 9004 nowadays. I picked up a used one. Worst case I can resell it if it’s not working in my setup.

Agreed about how you don't really need one, but it is something that is very beneficial. I think since I just got the 20 gallon AIO. I am going to be getting the IceCap K1 - Nano Skimmer for mine. Luckily too it is only $95.. since it is a nano where they can typically run you a few 100, but I just feel like protein skimmers really take your tank to the next level.