Basically run the lights to meet and level out your nuitrent level. Some people do run them 24/7 to keep up with their nuitrent production or try to. Best to give the algae a rest period we are told.
Algae Scrubber and refugium, same/same or different?
- Thread starter LondonJon
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Scrubber_steve
2500 Club Member
Scrubber_steve's scrubber in action
I think you find that advice is for GHA and even then am.not sure if it's at all necessary. However, as intestinalis is found not only in full salinity but also almost fresh water than I doubt it does any harm, in fact, at the rate my Ulva grows it appears not to matter at all that I rinse it briefly in tap water.
This is just 4 days growth since the previous harvest.
Scrubber_steve
2500 Club Member
Rinsing the Ulva (that remains on the screen after cleaning) with cold freshwater does stress it, as does scraping/cutting it. But it just exudes organics for a little while, then resumes growing.
Right, well, that being the case but I have not read it about Ulva then I have a few choices. I can allow any short lengths of Ulva to wash down the screen on its return to the scrubber or rinse it. In fact, I have a net bag on the outlet of my scrubber which collects any loose Ulva so it's no big deal not to rinse it. I could remove a small jug of water from the sump and rinse the screen with that.
Scrubber_steve
2500 Club Member
You could rinse it & then let it stand a little while in a separate container of tank water. Then replace it back into the housing
Paulie069
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I’m so new to all this I don’t even know what chaeto is , anybody care to explain it to me. Might sound like dumb question to u, but I’m a aquarium virgin and don’t know what chaeto is
Scrubber_steve
2500 Club Member
Scrubber_steve
2500 Club Member
This unit may be better than nothing, but it has a few design faults.
It's like Reef2Reef is a mind reader I was just checking out this new company with hang on scrubbers really considering for a nano tank they look like they are made very well
1. Only one side of the screen is lit, so only half the effectiveness.
2. There's a lot of light bleed from the red 660s
3. The screen sits totally submerged in water. An important design feature of a scrubber, whether the old horizontal style, or the down-flow configuration, & even the bubbling up-flow style, is the air-water interface, which is an analogue of ocean wave action mixing air & water.
Its a hang on back style, so unavoidable I guess.
Nicely made though.
Scrubber Steve,
I asked Randy at BRS about their recent ATS testing. I asked if they had noticed a pH bump as you were stating.
Randy wasnt definitive about their results, but did state:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...brstv-investigates.677306/page-2#post-6949311
Granted the testing they've done, (BRS) isnt completely 100% definitive, but it is something to consider.
I asked Randy at BRS about their recent ATS testing. I asked if they had noticed a pH bump as you were stating.
Randy wasnt definitive about their results, but did state:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...brstv-investigates.677306/page-2#post-6949311
Granted the testing they've done, (BRS) isnt completely 100% definitive, but it is something to consider.
Scrubber_steve
2500 Club Member
Hmmm; I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting here? But if it is your opinion that algae filtration doesn't aid in maintaining pH I'll respond with the following.
1. In regards to Randy & mentioned BRS test, I don't know what the pH of the test aquariums were, or the ambient air co2 content. If the pH of the control tanks was 8.1 or higher, I would see no reason why the scrubber tanks pH should be higher. If the ambient co2 content of the air in the testing room was normal, I don't see why the pH of the control tanks should be low.
2. Algae photosynthesise, meaning CO2 is converted to O2. High ambient levels of CO2 cause aquarium pH to lower.
In the article The Need to Breathe, Part 3, Eric Borneman states "Aquaria can and do become saturated or supersaturated with oxygen during the day, and this is a result of oxygen resulting from irradiance of photosynthetic organisms. In no case was saturation or supersaturation measured without photosynthesis."
cheers
Steve,
What I'm stating is that BRS has stated in the past that they do not believe ATS will have as large or any boost to aquarium pH unlike a refugium. They are stating/hypothesizing that this is due to the ATS pulling CO2 out of the surrounding air as opposed to solely out the aquarium water itself.
I asked Randy at BRS about it and he posted the reply I copy/pasted above.
I've never used an ATS, so I dont have personal experience with it one way or another.
Believe me when I say I'm really hoping an ATS will boost pH like a refugium will. I'm starting up a smaller system in the basement of my house which collects more CO2 than elsewhere in the house. I will be running either an ATS or a refugium (on a reverse photo period) for PO4/NO3 export, and to give the tank a pH boost at night. An ATS will take up less space than a fuge, and the cost is pretty close when you consider the light required for a Fuge.
Because of my particular situation, I require BOTH pH increase and NO3/PO4 export. Whichever method (ATS or Fuge) works best for my needs is what I will use.
I think you are correct in that a waterfall ATS will not have a real significant affect on PH in your tank unfortunately. That is not the primary reason for a waterfall ATS however, nuitrent export being the number one anything else like PH elevation and heavy metal reduction somewhat down the list.
Atoll,
I understand that completely, which is why my original post in this thread was a statement to figure out what you want/need the export system to accomplish, and choose the one that works best for your needs.
I then pointed out that under most circumstances, the differences between Fuge and ATS were pretty minimal, but there were some differences between the two that favored one over the other. Space limitations favor the ATS over the Fuge, but if pH stabilization or bump/increase was a concern, a Fuge would be more likely to be better.
Scrubber Steve then stated that ATS will bump up pH in aquariums which is where the discussion has been heading.
I've never used an ATS, but I've seen several in operation and have never seen a waterfall style ATS where the water completely covers all of the algae and keeps it from being exposed to air during the entire process.
As the pH "bump" is due to the CO2 being pulled from the aquarium water by the algae, covering the algae in water results in the tank water being the only source of CO2 for the algae. If the algae is exposed to surrounding air, the algae is going to be able to pull CO2 from the surrounding air as well as from the aquarium water, so less of a pH "bump" if at all.
I'd be quite happy to be learn that waterfall ATS's will in fact have the same effect on aquarium pH that a chaeto refugium will, as that would work better for my specific needs, but I dont think that's going to be the case.
I understand that completely, which is why my original post in this thread was a statement to figure out what you want/need the export system to accomplish, and choose the one that works best for your needs.
I then pointed out that under most circumstances, the differences between Fuge and ATS were pretty minimal, but there were some differences between the two that favored one over the other. Space limitations favor the ATS over the Fuge, but if pH stabilization or bump/increase was a concern, a Fuge would be more likely to be better.
Scrubber Steve then stated that ATS will bump up pH in aquariums which is where the discussion has been heading.
I've never used an ATS, but I've seen several in operation and have never seen a waterfall style ATS where the water completely covers all of the algae and keeps it from being exposed to air during the entire process.
As the pH "bump" is due to the CO2 being pulled from the aquarium water by the algae, covering the algae in water results in the tank water being the only source of CO2 for the algae. If the algae is exposed to surrounding air, the algae is going to be able to pull CO2 from the surrounding air as well as from the aquarium water, so less of a pH "bump" if at all.
I'd be quite happy to be learn that waterfall ATS's will in fact have the same effect on aquarium pH that a chaeto refugium will, as that would work better for my specific needs, but I dont think that's going to be the case.
Scrubber_steve
2500 Club Member
If the algae is wet it is not [directly] exposed to the air.
Where you can see the algae is wet, but it doesn't appear that water is running down it, try touching it in that place with a finger tip & you'll see that in fact water is running down it. The water will pool around the finger tip.
You seem to have the perception that because algae in a fuge is submerged below the water line it is totally immersed in water, but when algae is suspended on a scrubber screen above the water it isn't immersed, rather it is exposed to air.
This is incorrect.
The entire surface area of algae in a fuge is in contact with water. It is completely immersed.
The entire surface area of algae on a scrubber screen is also in contact with water. A thin film or water, yes,, but totally immersed just the same. So it isn't in direct contact with the surrounding air.
The advantage of growing algae in a scrubber, & why its growth is so consistent & fast, is the environment this thin film of water [the air water interface], creates, because of gas exchange. As a consequence of photosynthesis oxygen levels in aquarium water reach saturation, or near saturation levels, & CO2 levels become limited to the point of photosynthesis ceasing. An algae scrubber can take advantage of this situation via the thin film of water covering its surface as a direct point of gas exchange providing the otherwise limited co2. Either way, the algae on a scrubber screen assimilates all its co2 from the water it is in direct contact with.
cheers
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