Alk continues to drop below floor limit at night

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I noticed that my Alk floor limit frequently drops below 8.6 at night. My target using Trident is 9 but hardly reaching that limit. I compared PH and Alk graphs on Neptune and they seem move in the same direction. High during the day and low during the night.
I increased Alk dosing by 1 ml per day so far and I haven’t seen the impact.

any suggestions?
 
OP
OP
canadianeh

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
What do you have your Trident controlled dosing for alkalinity set to, and how much alkalinity (and at what times) are you dosing daily?
Here you go. Thanks
39B8F40B-A66E-40C4-A9F6-8570014701A0.png
5F2E737F-B175-4CA7-842C-5EEDCF5A5F2C.png
 

blaxsun

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
26,709
Reaction score
31,131
Location
The Abyss
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ah, easy fix. Set the value to 8.5 dKH and increase the range to 0.75 dKH. This means Trident will influence the dosing amount between a low of 7.75 dKH to a high of 9.25 dKH.

Right now you have it set to 9.0 dKH, so as soon as the alkalinity drops below 8.6 dKH the Trident stops influencing it.

You may also want to look at a slightly modified schedule. For example, I add more at night, less during the morning, even more during the day, less in the late afternoon and more at night again.

PM me and I'll send you a screenshot of my schedule if you like.
 
OP
OP
canadianeh

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ah, easy fix. Set the value to 8.5 dKH and increase the range to 0.75 dKH. This means Trident will influence the dosing amount between a low of 7.75 dKH to a high of 9.25 dKH.

Right now you have it set to 9.0 dKH, so as soon as the alkalinity drops below 8.6 dKH the Trident stops influencing it.

You may also want to look at a slightly modified schedule. For example, I add more at night, less during the morning, even more during the day, less in the late afternoon and more at night again.

PM me and I'll send you a screenshot of my schedule if you like.
But that mean I target for 8.5 instead of 9 though. I want to keep it at 9. Do I need to increase the total daily ml?

please share your schedule for dosing more at night. Thanks
 

blaxsun

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
26,709
Reaction score
31,131
Location
The Abyss
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
But that mean I target for 8.5 instead of 9 though. I want to keep it at 9. Do I need to increase the total daily ml?
please share your schedule for dosing more at night. Thanks
If you target it for 9 and it drops below the threshold, the the Trident won't compensate the DOS. You can set this to 8.75, 9.0 (etc.) Just remember that the maximum ±range is 0.75, so anything under 8.25 or over 9.75 won't get adjusted. Here's my dosing schedule - it runs for 2 hours with a 2-hour break in-between (when I dose magnesium so there's no overlap). I target 8.0 dKH with a ±0.75 range and ±50% limit.

Screen Shot 2021-11-25 at 5.34.19 PM.png
 

FishyFishFish

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
1,626
Reaction score
1,660
Location
Texas
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
I’m not an Apex user but I would work on getting the Alk stable before giving control of it to the Neptune.

How much is it dropping, what is your water volume, and what are you dosing? Use a reef calculator to work out how much extra you need to dose. 1ml per day doesn’t sound like a big change, unless it’s a very small tank.

Once the Alk is fairly stable without the Neptune changing the amounts, then you can add it back in to fine tune the levels.
 

Tbg299

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Messages
391
Reaction score
174
Location
US
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Have you checked your Calcium levels? My alkalinity was dropping off every night like this, and it stabilized when I reduced my Calcium from 520 to 490 ppm.
 
OP
OP
canadianeh

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
If you target it for 9 and it drops below the threshold, the the Trident won't compensate the DOS. You can set this to 8.75, 9.0 (etc.) Just remember that the maximum ±range is 0.75, so anything under 8.25 or over 9.75 won't get adjusted. Here's my dosing schedule - it runs for 2 hours with a 2-hour break in-between (when I dose magnesium so there's no overlap). I target 8.0 dKH with a ±0.75 range and ±50% limit.

Screen Shot 2021-11-25 at 5.34.19 PM.png
So in my case I would need to change the range to 0.75 instead of dropping the target level to 8.5.
 
OP
OP
canadianeh

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’m not an Apex user but I would work on getting the Alk stable before giving control of it to the Neptune.

How much is it dropping, what is your water volume, and what are you dosing? Use a reef calculator to work out how much extra you need to dose. 1ml per day doesn’t sound like a big change, unless it’s a very small tank.

Once the Alk is fairly stable without the Neptune changing the amounts, then you can add it back in to fine tune the levels.
I have been on Neptune for more than a year. Before that, I dose Alk and Cal manually and recorded my daily dosing on a notebook to get idea of my daily consumption. Lately it keeps dropping pass the control floor limit. I wonder if my tank is starting to consume more? I haven’t added new corals for months. It dropped to 8.4-8.5. Floor limit is 8.6. I dose 2 parts ESV Alk and Cal. 65 galllon total volume.
 
OP
OP
canadianeh

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Have you checked your Calcium levels? My alkalinity was dropping off every night like this, and it stabilized when I reduced my Calcium from 520 to 490 ppm.
I dose 2 parts so they dose equal amount
 

FishyFishFish

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
1,626
Reaction score
1,660
Location
Texas
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Has anything else changed recently (e.g. lighting, calcium level, any other dosing changes etc)? Is the Neptune testing once per day (and is this test at the same time every day, at the same time that it has always been)?

If everything is the same, then it could be that you are consuming more Alk, but I would run an independent test just for piece of mind.

I don’t want to give bad info as I’m not exactly sure of your setup or what products you are using, but if you’re using ESV calcium buffer, the calculator shows approx 12ml to raise the Alk from 8.6 to 9 with a water volume of 65 gal.
 
OP
OP
canadianeh

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Has anything else changed recently (e.g. lighting, calcium level, any other dosing changes etc)? Is the Neptune testing once per day (and is this test at the same time every day, at the same time that it has always been)?

If everything is the same, then it could be that you are consuming more Alk, but I would run an independent test just for piece of mind.

I don’t want to give bad info as I’m not exactly sure of your setup or what products you are using, but if you’re using ESV calcium buffer, the calculator shows approx 12ml to raise the Alk from 8.6 to 9 with a water volume of 65 gal.
The only thing that changed few months ago I started to dose Calcium using Neptune DOS and Trident. In the past, I dosed Alk only and only dose calcium when I need it. Now I dose alk and cal automatically and equally. I know about the calculator and use it when I need it.

I am wondering why it only drops during overnights. It moves the same with the ph. It goes up during the day and go down during night time.

Neptune test 4 times per day
 
OP
OP
canadianeh

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
When you say ‘drops during the overnights’, at what times are you testing?
12 am test. And usually at 6 am test it back above 8.6 which is the floor limit. Sometime I have to wait until 12 pm test. Test at 12 am, 6am, 12 pm, 6 pm
 
OP
OP
canadianeh

canadianeh

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
1,611
Reaction score
1,044
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Try co2 scrubber connect to skimmer, possible ph drop which decrease alk
Ot maybe I can increase the control range from +/-0.40 to 0.50 so that Neptune will dose more when the Alk drop below 8.6?
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 73 37.6%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 66 34.0%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 12.9%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 28 14.4%
  • Other.

    Votes: 2 1.0%
Back
Top