Alk swings with water changes

[CJ Monty]

I am fairly new to the hobby and am learning how important it is to keep a stable dKh. My question is can even a routine water change produce a dKh swing. For example say you keep your tank at 8 dKh. Using this chart (https://www.thatpetplace.com/salt-mix-guide) and reef crystal salt if I did a 15% water change. That would mean you would raise you dKH by (13-8) * .15 = .75 to 8.75. That seems like a sudden swing to me but I know nothing.

Seems like you would want to keep your tank dKh close to whatever salt mix you are using. I know 13 is high so it would seem like this is not an ideal salt mix.

Also trying to up my game on keep dKh stable. If you have any advice on the following it would be helpful. I am between dosing kalk and 2 part. I am leaning towards BRS powder 2 part because :
1. kalk raises ca more the dKh throwing them out of wack
2. pain to make
3. figuring out how much to dose is not straight forward (to me at least right now)

but am worried about:
1. kalk helps maintain ph - 2 part doesn't?
2. does 2 part cost a lot more than kalk?

 

[Gareth elliott]

Ok will answer 2 of your questions never used to kalk to talk give a response.

For salt mix that is higher dkh than my tank i use sea chem acid buffer. I mix 24 hours before use so the ph effect of the product is gone. Example for 5 gallons of my 9.3-9.5 dkh salt mix. I add 1 gram to bring that bucket to 8 dkh.

2 part is not expensive, but a doser to automate, can be.

 

[CJ Monty]

Ok will answer 2 of your questions never used to kalk to talk give a response.

For salt mix that is higher dkh than my tank i use sea chem acid buffer. I mix 24 hours before use so the ph effect of the product is gone. Example for 5 gallons of my 9.3-9.5 dkh salt mix. I add 1 gram to bring that bucket to 8 dkh.

2 part is not expensive, but a doser to automate, can be.

What salt mix do you use? What ph effect does the acid buffer have? Does it initially lower the ph but over time but as the water gets aerated rises back up to where it was but the dKh stays at 8?

I just picked up 2 used 1.1ml BRS doser for a total of 57 shipped. Think I got a pretty good deal but not sure?

 

[redfishbluefish]

I run my alk on the low side and it's one of the reasons I use simple, old Instant Ocean. My interest in water changes is to use a salt that is as close to sea water.....and Instant Ocean is one salt that is close (and has history and reasonable price).

 

[CJ Monty]

I run my alk on the low side and it's one of the reasons I use simple, old Instant Ocean. My interest in water changes is to use a salt that is as close to sea water.....and Instant Ocean is one salt that is close (and has history and reasonable price).

What is low side? 8? It makes sense to use the closest thing to the actual ocean. Instant Ocean Ca and Mg seem low compared to what I have been told to be the ideal levels. Do you buff any of those before adding? The dKh of 11 also is less of a swing. I dont know if a .5 swing is a lot or not.

 

[Gareth elliott]

What salt mix do you use? What ph effect does the acid buffer have? Does it initially lower the ph but over time but as the water gets aerated rises back up to where it was but the dKh stays at 8?

I just picked up 2 used 1.1ml BRS doser for a total of 57 shipped. Think I got a pretty good deal but not sure?

Thats a good deal [emoji4]

It initially lowers ph but dissipates after the reaction has occurred. Alkalinity stays decreased. I use dd h2ocean salt mix similar to red sea blue bucket.

Also switched my alk test to the hanna checker, made verifying my math a little easier.

 

[CJ Monty]

Thats a good deal

It initially lowers ph but dissipates after the reaction has occurred. Alkalinity stays decreased. I use dd h2ocean salt mix similar to red sea blue bucket.

Great! From what I heard it is fair to say when doing a water change you want the dKH of the new water to be equal to the dKh of your tank (assuming your tank is where you want it).

What about other elements such as CA? 420 is ideal, if your tank is at that level and you use reef crystals (490) you are going to raise it. Is that a problem? Also seems like with each water change you will be raising your CA if you are replacing your ca (via 2 part) at consumption rate.

For example tank 420, water change raises it to 430, you have dose at consumption rate and it stays at 430, next water change raises it to 439, etc...

So I guess for CA you dose just under consumption rate so that by the time the next water changes rolls around it drops from 430 to 420?

 

[Gareth elliott]

The error percentage in mg and ca tests is greater than that of alkalinity tests i consider a match if its +\- 10% of each other.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I do what @redfishbluefish does, keep my Alk close to what my water change level is. I get water from my LFS and they use RedSea blue bucket I believe. It mixes to 7.8 - 8.2 dKh. Mag stays in the 1300 range with no dosing and fresh saltwater tests at 430 ppm for calcium.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

For example tank 420, water change raises it to 430, you have dose at consumption rate and it stays at 430, next water change raises it to 439, etc...

So I guess for CA you dose just under consumption rate so that by the time the next water changes rolls around it drops from 430 to 420?

If that were the case for my calcium, I wouldn't dose anything. I would just let it rise and fall due to water changes and consumption.

 

[CJ Monty]

Ok will answer 2 of your questions never used to kalk to talk give a response.

For salt mix that is higher dkh than my tank i use sea chem acid buffer. I mix 24 hours before use so the ph effect of the product is gone. Example for 5 gallons of my 9.3-9.5 dkh salt mix. I add 1 gram to bring that bucket to 8 dkh.

2 part is not expensive, but a doser to automate, can be.

Are these the right 2 part solutions I should be using?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/7-pounds-bulk-calcium-chloride-bulk-reef-supply.html
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/7-pounds-bulk-soda-ash-bulk-reef-supply.html

Is this the acid buffer you were talking about?
https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-6710...F8&qid=1539793840&sr=8-2&keywords=acid+buffer


Kind of ironic, we have 2 part to raise our dKh and at the same time we have an acid buffer to lower our dKh of our salt mix. But that is reefing for you!

 

[Gareth elliott]

Are these the right 2 part solutions I should be using?

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/7-pounds-bulk-calcium-chloride-bulk-reef-supply.html
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/7-pounds-bulk-soda-ash-bulk-reef-supply.html

Is this the acid buffer you were talking about?
https://www.amazon.com/Seachem-6710...F8&qid=1539793840&sr=8-2&keywords=acid+buffer


Kind of ironic, we have 2 part to raise our dKh and at the same time we have an acid buffer to lower our dKh of our salt mix. But that is reefing for you!

Yes those are the ones!
There are salt mixes out there closer to 7, if wish to go that route it is easier


I used to use the acid buffer when trying to get certain dwarf cichlids to breed. reef tank alkalinity is simple compared to trying to maintain a ph of 3.5 without it wildly bouncing around randomly.

 

[Dburr1014]

I am fairly new to the hobby and am learning how important it is to keep a stable dKh. My question is can even a routine water change produce a dKh swing. For example say you keep your tank at 8 dKh. Using this chart (https://www.thatpetplace.com/salt-mix-guide) and reef crystal salt if I did a 15% water change. That would mean you would raise you dKH by (13-8) * .15 = .75 to 8.75. That seems like a sudden swing to me but I know nothing.

Seems like you would want to keep your tank dKh close to whatever salt mix you are using. I know 13 is high so it would seem like this is not an ideal salt mix.

Also trying to up my game on keep dKh stable. If you have any advice on the following it would be helpful. I am between dosing kalk and 2 part. I am leaning towards BRS powder 2 part because :
1. kalk raises ca more the dKh throwing them out of wack
2. pain to make
3. figuring out how much to dose is not straight forward (to me at least right now)

but am worried about:
1. kalk helps maintain ph - 2 part doesn't?
2. does 2 part cost a lot more than kalk?

Smaller more frequent water changes will help the issue.

 

[CJ Monty]

Smaller more frequent water changes will help the issue.

Smaller and more frequent than 10 percent weekly? Theoretically sure realistically not happening.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am fairly new to the hobby and am learning how important it is to keep a stable dKh. My question is can even a routine water change produce a dKh swing. For example say you keep your tank at 8 dKh. Using this chart (https://www.thatpetplace.com/salt-mix-guide) and reef crystal salt if I did a 15% water change. That would mean you would raise you dKH by (13-8) * .15 = .75 to 8.75. That seems like a sudden swing to me but I know nothing.

Seems like you would want to keep your tank dKh close to whatever salt mix you are using. I know 13 is high so it would seem like this is not an ideal salt mix.

Also trying to up my game on keep dKh stable. If you have any advice on the following it would be helpful. I am between dosing kalk and 2 part. I am leaning towards BRS powder 2 part because :
1. kalk raises ca more the dKh throwing them out of wack
2. pain to make
3. figuring out how much to dose is not straight forward (to me at least right now)

but am worried about:
1. kalk helps maintain ph - 2 part doesn't?
2. does 2 part cost a lot more than kalk?

You can either do many small (even automatic changes) or you can match the water change to the tank, if suchalk changes worry you.

You can make a two part that has the same pH effect as kalkwasser. It may cost more, depending on where you buy and which ingredients you choose.

Limewater /kalkwasser does not throw calcium and alk out of whack. It very slowly adds slightly more calcium than alk since it adds exactly what is present in calcium carbonate, but corals do not deposit pure calcium carbonate, but slightly less calcium than that because magnesium swaps into the crystal in place of some of the calcium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Smaller and more frequent than 10 percent weekly? Theoretically sure realistically not happening.

Many folks do 1% daily. In my case, that consisted of 24 changes each day of 15 minutes each done automatically

Slow and steady is, IMO, better than manual changes of larger volumes.

 

[Andres Ricardo perez]

[/CITAR]
hello I need to change my alkalinity from 10.4dkh to 7 dkh for 180 liters of water change is the seachem product safe? how much should i use?