Alkalinity 6.5

[PaddSter]

Hi all,

So I've just been doing my weekly checks.
All parameters pretty consistent. A bit of a phosphate which I know isn't great but slowly fighting it.

My concern is alk/mag/cal...
I've been struggling with high calcium for a bit. My calcium is 500+, magnesium 1500, but alkalinity... 6.5..

I try to test weekly.
Last week my magnesium was 1440
Calcium 500+ and alkalinity 7.6-8.0

This week alkalinity went below 7.

I am using TMC All for reef.
Dosing around 30ml throughout 4 ways.
This was keeping my alkalinity around 8 at all times.

What does that mean that my alkalinity dropping now below 7? Can I address this problem with adding some baking soda to RO and adding it gradually?

All advice well appreciated.

 

[Hemmdog]

Just dose alk. Get a normal 2-part.

 

[Spare time]

You need to stop all for reef if levels are consistently being thrown off. Get an alk supplement (brs has some great values for their brand). Alk being used up means (typically) that your stony corals (or something else) is taking it up to build their skeleton. You need to keep alk stable (best between 8-13) and don't raise more than 0.5 a day (unless its being used at a rate above that)

 

[PaddSter]

2 part?

 

[tankstudy]

2 part?

Alkalinity and Calcium are dosed separately.

I'd go with something that has Alk, calcium and magnesium all being separate since your magnesium and calcium are already high enough.

 

[PaddSter]

I suppose cutting it off completely would affect calcium and magnesium..?

When I bought this I've been told to keep adding it until the ALK gets to 8.0 which I did. And then add this quantity per day which brings me to 25-30ml every 4 days.

Didn't realise it was affecting magnesium and calcium that much...

 

[PaddSter]

Just a thought.. can I add a bit of baking soda into the mixture..? As I understand it brings the alk up.
1 level teaspoon raises 50g by 1dkh. So if I am dosing my "All for reef" over 4 days I could add around 2 teaspoon of baking soda into that water in the container (connected to auto top up system) being dosed over 4 days.

Would that work?

 

[Jeff Jarry reef]

In my experience I wouldn't dos cal 2 part just ALK cal. Will come down then when ALK gets at desired level start dosing equal amounts. Then adjust accordingly.

 

[PaddSter]

Would that be dosing baking soda? And once I bring it to around 9? 10? Over let's say couple of weeks keep it at that level I suppose?

 

[Greg P]

The ideal Alk range for your tank is going to be dictated by a couple things;
What do you have for corals?
What are your NO3 and PO4 levels?

As for dosing baking soda, it's best used outside your ATO so you can dose exactly what you need, and you really want to use soda ash not baking soda as it's more potent.
You can bake baking soda @ 300 degrees for an hour to convert it into ash, or just buy LFS ash.

 

[nereefpat]

Can I address this problem with adding some baking soda to RO and adding it gradually?

Yes. That will raise alkalinity. Sorry you keep getting such complicated answers.

 

[Greg P]

If I remember correctly, baking soda takes more product than soda ash to raise Alk while also lowering pH as it has more CO2.
Soda ash, being baked, has had much of the CO2 driven off and will then in turn temporarily raise pH.
To each his own.

 

[PaddSter]

You need to stop all for reef if levels are consistently being thrown off. Get an alk supplement (brs has some great values for their brand). Alk being used up means (typically) that your stony corals (or something else) is taking it up to build their skeleton. You need to keep alk stable (best between 8-13) and don't raise more than 0.5 a day (unless its being used at a rate above that)

The ideal Alk range for your tank is going to be dictated by a couple things;
What do you have for corals?
What are your NO3 and PO4 levels?

As for dosing baking soda, it's best used outside your ATO so you can dose exactly what you need, and you really want to use soda ash not baking soda as it's more potent.
You can bake baking soda @ 300 degrees for an hour to convert it into ash, or just buy LFS ash.

I have mixed tank. Couple of leathers, few sps, some LPS and zoas, Gorgonians.

I've noticed they started to grow quiet a lot recently.

My parameters are all pretty much 0 except nitrate which has just slight orange shade but not quiet 5ppm. My phosphate is just less than 0.25 ATM but not quiet 0.03 yet. PH 8.0-8.2 I was feeding regularly for my goniopora recently. Trying to reduce it slowly now and changing rowaphos every 3 weeks with slightly higher dosage as the recommended dosage didn't do much last time.

 

[robbyg]

Because your Mg level is so high the calcium level can easily reach 500+ and that will in turn limit how high your alk can go. You really need to drop the Mg level and then add Alk. You should see the calcium level drop and the alk go up.

 

[Greg P]

Padd, with your current N&P levels, you're OK to play with your Alk a bit.
I was going to suggest, if they were low/near zero, that you'd want to run your Alk in the 7-8 dKH range.
But, because you have decent levels you are OK to run higher if you like.
More below.

As per your corals, as you don't have lots of LPS or SPS, it's not crucial to run your Alk higher than natural seawater. But, running higher than NSW will yield increased growth rates as long as you keep your current nutrient (N&P) levels to allow tissue growth to keep up with skeletal growth.

So, consider NOT upping your RowaPhos usage, or even remove it completely over time, while reducing the amount you add each change.
Watch your N&P while adjusting the rowa and decide from there.

I could give you more info, but feel this is enough for you to absorb to start with in this post.

As for your initial thoughts, it's quite possible you may need to switch to a 2-part product to keep tighter control on your levels.
FYI, 2-part is actually 3 parts, where you're adding Alk, Ca and some form of Mag (which in itself can be 2 parts ).
And all are adding separately - not mixed together.
Read the first link, absorb it, and then search R2R for threads on DIY 2-part/Randy's 2-part.
Once you've gone blind reading, start a thread if you have any questions

Some links to get you started;

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part
Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System

Bulk Reef Supply
2-PART PHARMA CALCIUM & ALKALINITY STARTER PACKAGE

 

[Greg P]

Because your Mg level is so high the calcium level can easily reach 500+ and that will in turn limit how high your alk can go. You really need to drop the Mg level and then add Alk. You should see the calcium level drop and the alk go up.

This is the first I've heard of this.
Do you have any links to back this up? I've obviously forgotten something I've possibly read in the past and don't want to give bad advice if what you are saying is true.

Sure, low Mag will limit Alk but not a high level, and my understanding is that once Ca hits saturation, it will precipitate but not have any affect on Alk.

 

[PaddSter]

Padd, with your current N&P levels, you're OK to play with your Alk a bit.
I was going to suggest, if they were low/near zero, that you'd want to run your Alk in the 7-8 dKH range.
But, because you have decent levels you are OK to run higher if you like.
More below.

As per your corals, as you don't have lots of LPS or SPS, it's not crucial to run your Alk higher than natural seawater. But, running higher than NSW will yield increased growth rates as long as you keep your current nutrient (N&P) levels to allow tissue growth to keep up with skeletal growth.

So, consider NOT upping your RowaPhos usage, or even remove it completely over time, while reducing the amount you add each change.
Watch your N&P while adjusting the rowa and decide from there.

I could give you more info, but feel this is enough for you to absorb to start with in this post.

As for your initial thoughts, it's quite possible you may need to switch to a 2-part product to keep tighter control on your levels.
FYI, 2-part is actually 3 parts, where you're adding Alk, Ca and some form of Mag (which in itself can be 2 parts ).
And all are adding separately - not mixed together.
Read the first link, absorb it, and then search R2R for threads on DIY 2-part/Randy's 2-part.
Once you've gone blind reading, start a thread if you have any questions

Some links to get you started;

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part
Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System

Bulk Reef Supply
2-PART PHARMA CALCIUM & ALKALINITY STARTER PACKAGE

Haha thanks Greg, you're a star!
Will do some studying later on at work

And also thank you for your work in putting this all together for me and for explaining all this 2parts 3 parts... @.@"

Will let you know what's the results are!

 

[Greg P]

BTW, I went from $150/yr CDN to $40/yr using 2-part vs bottled liquid additives.
Sure, it cost me a few hundred dollars to buy dosers, but they've paid for themselves over the last 7 years since the initial purchase.

 

[robbyg]

This is the first I've heard of this.
Do you have any links to back this up? I've obviously forgotten something I've possibly read in the past and don't want to give bad advice if what you are saying is true.

Sure, low Mag will limit Alk but not a high level, and my understanding is that once Ca hits saturation, it will precipitate but not have any affect on Alk.

I probably worded that wrong and did not think it through. Ca and Alk are some what inversely proportional. Mg can slide the maximums and minimums up or down. Your Ca being so high means that you really cannot get your Alk up much higher without having precipitation happening. At 500+ Ca levels I would expect the Alk to be at 6.5 so unless you lower the Ca level its going to require more Mg or PO4 to make the Alk go up with the current Ca level. Of course you Mg is pretty high already so I would just try to get the calcium level down by not adding any calcium to the tank for several days.