Alkalinity help

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This doesn't happen fast but it is inevitable using 2 part.

That is not a concern with a complete two part, such as ESV B-ionic. Sodium and chloride do not rise relative to everything else because it has everything else in the right proportions.

Complete two parts essentially put the Balling Part C in the two parts.

 

[HuduVudu]

I have yet to see anyone figure out what range values sodium and chloride should be in.

yet you then say nobody has figured out what these values should be.

Please read what I said carefully because you have put words into my mouth that I haven't said.

 

[HuduVudu]

That is not a concern with a complete two part, such as ESV B-ionic. Sodium and chloride do not rise relative to everything else because it has everything else in the right proportions.

Complete two parts essentially put the Balling Part C in the two parts.

Ok then they are doing the Balling.

What if they are doing your two part? What if they were doing B-Ionic but they wanted to save money and they are using your two part? What if they don't balance dose? Do they even know? People don't understand what they are doing and that is going to always be the issue. Sadly they want more to be comforted than informed, you of all people should understand this.

Look I am not going to get into this with you, I have been here before. The problem is there is a big difference between what is on paper and how it gets implemented IRL. That is and will always be my contention, because reason is useless without reality (and vice versa).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok then they are doing the Balling.

There's no perfect way to supplement calcium and alkalinity, as all systems have one or more drawbacks. Folks just have to decide what systems seem best within their budget, their tank expectations, and tank size.

When Bob Stark of ESV invented the two part, the trick was to put those same required ions that are in Balling Part C into the two parts in a way that was stable, making it easier for users (2 things to dose, not 3) . It's probably not exactly the same ingredients, but it is pretty close, and I agree that functionally, at least in theory, they are the same. Many two part systems now follow the general ESV design, though there is not any analytical data to indicated how good any of them are.
If folks are using my two part, I recommend using my part three as I described (which is not based on magnesium measurement), or preferably, use the Balling Part C instead of my part 3. BRS suggests this and I think it an excellent idea, although they seem to get the implementation a bit confused by suggesting using both my part 3 and Balling Part C, which duplicate each other.

I was very clear in designing the DIY two part on what was balanced and what was not. The major ions (sodium, chloride calcium, magnesium, sulfate, potassium and bicarbonate/carbonate) were balanced in my original recipe. Other ions (e.g., fluoride, etc.) were not, and I agree that isn't perfect. Water changes help that issue.

Keeping ions in check is why I recommend water changes for anyone using any method short of frequent ICP measurement of all important ions (and even then I think it useful for dealing with organics).

 

[HuduVudu]

There's no perfect way to supplement calcium and alkalinity, as all systems have one or more drawbacks.

Really agree here.

Finding the right system for an individual can be tough especially when they are new and they are looking for the "best" system.

Keeping ions in check is why I recommend water changes for anyone using any method short of frequent ICP measurement of all important ions (and even then I think it useful for dealing with organics).

We are in agreement and this is 100% my point.

Too many people talk about the usefulness of using two part, but leave out the parts that need to be dealt with that might be messy. Everyone wants a to sell the silver bullet.

I will leave it here.

 

[T-J]

Keeping ions in check is why I recommend water changes for anyone using any method short of frequent ICP measurement of all important ions (and even then I think it useful for dealing with organics).

And this is the method I use. That’s what the Moonshiner method is. You dose only what’s needed based on ICP results.