Alkalinity in Triton Part b + c and Affect on pH

Dr. Jim

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I learned that a combination of the two Triton alkalinity components (3a and 3b) have a combined Alk of 9750 dKH/L (pers. comm. with Julian Baggio, Triton, Germany). If my math is correct, then:

38.8 ml will raise 378.5 L (100 gal) 1 dKH unit. (This could be useful info for people using the GHL KH DIRECTOR for programming purposes.....and others may find it helpful also).

I invite others to check my math:
9750 dKH/L = 1 dkH/ 0.00010256 L. Then, 0.00010256 x 378.5L = 0.0388 L or 38.8 ml Correct?
(So, to be clear for Triton users, that would be 19.4ml of Part 3a plus 19.4ml of Part 3b)

I was also curious to know the ratio of bicarb to carbonate to get an idea of it's effect on pH (if this is even possible) but was told this info is proprietary. What I was told by Julian was this:

"If your system is set up according to the TRITON Method and you are dosing Core7 at a rate that maintains your Alkalinity between 7 and 8dKH then your pH should mostly sit just above 8."

So, I'm wondering if there is a way to use all this information to figure out the bicarbonate:carbonate ratio that they use?

What started me thinking about all this:
After many years of using Triton 4-Part, I decided to switch to a dosing system that does not have trace elements mixed into the Parts which requires dosing equal parts (so as to not unbalance the trace elements). I found this to be annoying because rarely could I rely on equal dosing. Usually, I would always need to add extra buffer and perhaps less Mg.

I switched to BRS stock solutions where I made a solution consisting of equal parts of carbonate and bicarbonate (by volume of their stock solutions). When I made this switch of buffers (Triton to BRS), my pH suddenly dropped considerably (about 0.2 dKH on average). I'm not sure if this pH drop is entirely because of the change in buffers because there are other possible factors that changed around the same time (which I won't get into).
But if my pH drop was due to the change in buffers, that would make me think that the Triton buffer has a very high carbonate to bicarbonate ration. Does this make sense, and again, can the information given above be used to determine the bicarb:carb ratio in Triton?

Thank you!
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Why is it desirable to calculate this ratio? Maybe they just use pure carbonate.

We know the ratio that is present in seawater at a given pH, and if you match that pH then the product will have near zero immediate pH effect.

Bicarbonate has a very tiny pH lowering effect. About 0.06 pH units for 1.4 dKH added.

Carbonate has a substantial pH raising effect. About 0.34 pH units per 1.4 dKH added.

Hydroxide has a bigger pH raising effect of about 0.66 pH units per 1.4 dKH added.

The exact effect depends on the starting alkalinity and pH, and drops back over time as the tank sucks in CO2 (or releases it).

Thus, it is apparent that a mix of a little carbonate and a lot of bicarbonate will be pH neutral, and the exact number can be calculated.
 
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Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

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Why is it desirable to calculate this ratio? Maybe they just use pure carbonate.

We know the ratio that is present in seawater at a given pH, and if you match that pH then the product will have near zero immediate pH effect.

Bicarbonate has a very tiny pH lowering effect. About 0.06 pH units for 1.4 dKH added.

Carbonate has a substantial pH raising effect. About 0.34 pH units per 1.4 dKH added.

Hydroxide has a bigger pH raising effect of about 0.66 pH units per 1.4 dKH added.

The exact effect depends on the starting alkalinity and pH, and drops back over time as the tank sucks in CO2 (or releases it).

Thus, it is apparent that a mix of a little carbonate and a lot of bicarbonate will be pH neutral, and the exact number can be calculated.
Thanks Randy. I was wondering if it would be possible to determine if the Triton buffer is very high in carbonate (higher than my 50:50 mix) because I was searching for a reason my pH suddenly dropped. If it could somehow be determined from the information given that the carbonate portion is not higher than my new mix, that would mean that something else is causing my pH drop.... and I need to keep looking for the reason.
 
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Dr. Jim

Dr. Jim

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The crudeness of the statement "just above 8" precludes exact calculations, but my best guess is that it has less carbonate than 50/50 and the effect lies elsehwere.
I forgot to mention....the other reason I was hoping to figure out the bicarb:carb ratio was so I could make my own buffer ratio and have it come close to Triton's, the one I've been using all along, to make the transition easier.

You wrote: "but my best guess is.... the effect lies elsewhere". I agree with that and had been leaning toward that "line" of thinking.
Thanks for helping!
 

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