Alkalinity rising on its own - Need help please

MnFish1 · Mar 29, 2019

casper320 said:
I think you're missing my point. I'm not sure how the condition was met, I'm just saying that it currently is in that condition and that if the condition is met it is possible to have the alkalinity raise on its own.

What I imagine happened was in the earliest stage of the nitrate problem happening his alkalinity probably lowered and he corrected it by adding 2 part. Eventually when his nitrates were lowered rapidly it added the additional alkalinity that he can't account for. In my case I dosed 2 part to compensate for a sudden drop in 2dKh and that 2dKh would eventually have been replenished, thus resulting in an increase from 9.5 to around 12dkH.

This I think could happen. I dont know - but its plausible. Like I said before I was never questioning what happened to you - I was questioning how it could have related to the OP:)

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 30, 2019

Shanet said:
I have this problem and the only thing I can put it down to is that I am using shell grit as sand. As the water heats up the alk increases, as it cools it decreases.

I don't see how calcium carbonate in any form will boost the alk to 15 dKH in seawater. It won't dissolve at that alk (or at 7 dKH).

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 30, 2019

casper320 said:
I think you're missing my point. I'm not sure how the condition was met, I'm just saying that it currently is in that condition and that if the condition is met it is possible to have the alkalinity raise on its own.

What I imagine happened was in the earliest stage of the nitrate problem happening his alkalinity probably lowered and he corrected it by adding 2 part. Eventually when his nitrates were lowered rapidly it added the additional alkalinity that he can't account for. In my case I dosed 2 part to compensate for a sudden drop in 2dKh and that 2dKh would eventually have been replenished, thus resulting in an increase from 9.5 to around 12dkH.

Yes, that could happen. A drop in nitrate will boost alk. About 2.3 dKH for 50 ppm of nitrate consumed (not removed by water change).

MnFish1 · Mar 30, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Yes, that could happen. A drop in nitrate will boost alk. About 2.3 dKH for 50 ppm of nitrate consumed (not removed by water change).

But - curious - again without water change - wouldn't the alk also have decreased the same amount when the nitrate was created? The OP uses a salt mix with a DKh of 7 mixed - yet his is ranging between 14 and 15 dkH?

GoVols · Mar 30, 2019

MnFish1 said:
But - curious - again without water change - wouldn't the alk also have decreased the same amount when the nitrate was created? The OP uses a salt mix with a DKh of 7 mixed - yet his is ranging between 14 and 15 dkH?

Just one note to add.

OP said, that he has not dosed any two part. So, is the reef in-taking alk?

Just tossing it out there... :)

tnyr5 · Mar 30, 2019

To the OP: Could you eplain in detail what you meant when you said: "The fresh water I am using for topoff has nearly 0 alk? (emphasis mine) What is the source of your topoff water?

GoVols · Mar 30, 2019

tnyr5 said:
To the OP: Could you eplain in detail what you meant when you said: "The fresh water I am using for topoff has nearly 0 alk? (emphasis mine) What is the source of your topoff water?

+1... :rolleyes:

:)

Freddie83 · Mar 31, 2019

tnyr5 said:
To the OP: Could you eplain in detail what you meant when you said: "The fresh water I am using for topoff has nearly 0 alk? (emphasis mine) What is the source of your topoff water?

RODI. Did a quick alk test and immediately changed color.

MnFish1 · Mar 31, 2019

Freddie83 said:
RODI. Did a quick alk test and immediately changed color.

It makes sense that the Ro di water has no alkalinity

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 31, 2019

MnFish1 said:
But - curious - again without water change - wouldn't the alk also have decreased the same amount when the nitrate was created? The OP uses a salt mix with a DKh of 7 mixed - yet his is ranging between 14 and 15 dkH?

Yes, the hypothesis suggested above is that alk was maintained during this process by dosing alk supplement. If not, that isn’t the explanation.

Freddie83 · Mar 31, 2019

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Yes, the hypothesis suggested above is that alk was maintained during this process by dosing alk supplement. If not, that isn’t the explanation.

Performed a 70g water change. Nitrates dropped down to 15 and alk down to 9.

Within 24 hours nitrates are back up to 25 and alk to 10.2.

Freddie83 · Apr 1, 2019

Freddie83 said:
Performed a 70g water change. Nitrates dropped down to 15 and alk down to 9.

Within 24 hours nitrates are back up to 25 and alk to 10.2.

Today alk is at 10.6

MnFish1 · Apr 2, 2019

Freddie83 said:
Performed a 70g water change. Nitrates dropped down to 15 and alk down to 9.

Within 24 hours nitrates are back up to 25 and alk to 10.2.

So first of all - I was under the impression that as nitrates increase - alkalinity decreases. (yours increased from 9 to 10.2 - or am I misreading?)..... Secondly - without doing anything today its at 10.6....

First - are you measuring the Alk at the same time of day?
Second - are you sure you're doing the test correctly?
Third is your wife adding chemicals to your reef in an attempt to drive you crazy (jk)....

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Freddie83 · May 25, 2019

Still experiencing the issue. I truly have no idea what else to do.

Erasmus Crowley · May 25, 2019

Is it possible that you added any rocks that might have been made from cement or concrete?

Newly mixed cement will leach alkalinity and raise the PH of water for a long time. Some people will soak their homemade concrete rock in water to cure for months to try and mitigate those effects before they put them into their tank. If you added a few new pieces of rock at some point and one or more of them was uncured concrete or cement it could possibly explain what you're seeing.

Freddie83 · May 26, 2019

Erasmus Crowley said:
Is it possible that you added any rocks that might have been made from cement or concrete?

Newly mixed cement will leach alkalinity and raise the PH of water for a long time. Some people will soak their homemade concrete rock in water to cure for months to try and mitigate those effects before they put them into their tank. If you added a few new pieces of rock at some point and one or more of them was uncured concrete or cement it could possibly explain what you're seeing.

Thank you for the reply, unfortunately, all of my rock is several years old.

Freddie83 · May 26, 2019

I did just notice (and removed) an old container of DampRid by my sump. I don’t know if that would have anything to do with it.

jccaclimber · May 26, 2019

Freddie83 said:
I did just notice (and removed) an old container of DampRid by my sump. I don’t know if that would have anything to do with it.

You can get anything in wireless these days :).
I'm also baffled as to what the source might be.

MnFish1 · May 26, 2019

1. Are you testing every day at the same time?
2. Are you sure your tests are correct?
3. If your inhabitants are not having a problem - there is no reason to act on an all of 10.6. I understand you want it lower - but I would suggest that you keep testing - make sure you're doing it at the same time/day. I would also do 2 tests each time - using rinsed vials, etc to see what the variation is when you just test 2 samples at the same time.

FWIW - to me the likelihood is that it could be an issue with testing itself - or time of day. The problem is that if you keep making changes (water changes, etc) you will never be able to figure it out - as long as it's not a dangerous level - I would watch it.

MnFish1 · May 26, 2019

BTW - when you mix your salt for replacement - how long do you let it mix. Do you make sure that the salt in the bucket/box/bag is well mixed before you take the salt out to make yours. Do you make sure you follow the directions of the manufacturer? (For example mine recommends mixing overnight before using - some others immediate - some others 4 hours.