All frags dying!

[madweazl]

The API kits are notorious for showing up to .25 ammonia and given the time the tank has been up, I believe that to be error so I wouldnt worry about that (plus, your fish are still kicking...).

To try and clear some things up, the possibility of low nitrates (which I don't believe are 0 but it's possible) and low intensity lighting absolutely will NOT kill corals in two days (or two weeks in reality). You wont starve to death in two days, neither will your corals. With that said, the constant exposure is a problem. Doesn't mean it was solely responsible for the rapid decline, it just didn't help. Running something like the 20-30% mentioned earlier on a 8-12 hour photo-period will likely be fine. When corals are stressed, increasing the intensity by a good margin is almost never helpful; they typically recover better in lower lighting situations (one less thing to adjust to).

In regard to test kits, I couldn't have hated the Hanna calcium checker any more than I did. That test kit is a tedious pain in the butt, offer it up for a trade or sell it. I've had the most repeatable results with the Red Sea Pro kit for calcium (I have shaky hands so I gooned up the Salifert drops many times). Most (me included) are happy with the results the Salifert magnesium kit provides (though this is probably the least important of the commonly tested elements). The Hanna alkalinity checker is super easy to use, I wouldn't trade it for anything. The Salifert nitrate kit is easy and consistent. Your Hanna phosphate kit is fine for now (the ULR is a better choice if you go SPS dominant at some point but the low range is fine for a mixed reef). Don't worry about the pH, it is what it is and you cant do much about it (I pay zero attention to mine); the CO2 levels in your home will largely dictate your pH.

 

[reeflife3]

look at the chart for your light, your tank appears to be 24" deep and your light looks to be about 12" to 16" above the tank ( if you could provide the measurements that would be great). At both channels at 1% the tank is lit but your corals are not getting use able light. The Forgspawn, zoas, and Acans would be happy in the 100 to 150 range and to achieve this you would probably set the white channel at 50% and the blue closer to 75%. And run the light around 8 or 9 hours.

 

[Keroppi]

Well, everybody can talk smack about the API kit for sure, but I read their color fir pH as 8.0, and per 2 different ph probes I forgot I bought, it's right on the money.

View attachment 20180925_205010.jpg

 

[Dennis McGrath]

is this how the hanna checker works or something?

There's 2 models one that measures DKH and the other that measures PPM. I have both (don't ask why, long story).

 

[NY_Caveman]

Just to be clear about your lighting. The two issues people are mentioning are photoperiod which is the length of time the lights are on and intensity, the amount of light (PAR). They are not the same thing. Both are very important in setting your lighting. Some folks may have success using a long photoperiod with a lower intensity. Others will use a short photoperiod with a high intensity. The point people here were making is your photoperiod was too long for any intensity and your intensity was too low for any photoperiod.

 

[Keroppi]

Thank you for that detailed reply. You seem to be highly regarded on this hobby. I definitely intend on replacing the kit(s)...I have heard good things about the salifert, as well as the hanna. I had gotten the hanna because it was readily available. The Ca I actually have never used, for lack of proper de-ionized water. I have the PO4, ULR No2, Ca, and Alk. I want to get a better No3, for sure. I really thought I was over with even worrying about ammonia.

The API kits are notorious for showing up to .25 ammonia and given the time the tank has been up, I believe that to be error so I wouldnt worry about that (plus, your fish are still kicking...).

To try and clear some things up, the possibility of low nitrates (which I don't believe are 0 but it's possible) and low intensity lighting absolutely will NOT kill corals in two days (or two weeks in reality). You wont starve to death in two days, neither will your corals. With that said, the constant exposure is a problem. Doesn't mean it was solely responsible for the rapid decline, it just didn't help. Running something like the 20-30% mentioned earlier on a 8-12 hour photo-period will likely be fine. When corals are stressed, increasing the intensity by a good margin is almost never helpful; they typically recover better in lower lighting situations (one less thing to adjust to).

In regard to test kits, I couldn't have hated the Hanna calcium checker any more than I did. That test kit is a tedious pain in the butt, offer it up for a trade or sell it. I've had the most repeatable results with the Red Sea Pro kit for calcium (I have shaky hands so I gooned up the Salifert drops many times). Most (me included) are happy with the results the Salifert magnesium kit provides (though this is probably the least important of the commonly tested elements). The Hanna alkalinity checker is super easy to use, I wouldn't trade it for anything. The Salifert nitrate kit is easy and consistent. Your Hanna phosphate kit is fine for now (the ULR is a better choice if you go SPS dominant at some point but the low range is fine for a mixed reef). Don't worry about the pH, it is what it is and you cant do much about it (I pay zero attention to mine); the CO2 levels in your home will largely dictate your pH.

 

[madweazl]

I've made every mistake you can make and have killed so many things over the past 23 years I'm almost ashamed to admit it. We all start somewhere and we all make mistakes despite our best intentions. Saltwater critters are extremely resilient, truly; what they can survive is nothing short of amazing. I'm a firm believer that it takes two or three things to be out of whack before stuff dies. Alkalinity fluctuations by themselves aren't fatal, 0 nutrients by themselves aren't fatal, salinity by itself isn't fatal (unless these parameters are well outside of acceptable ranges but that margin is actually quite large).

You have a young tank, it's possible to keep corals but it's certainly harder. Your lights were on full time even though at low levels (by itself, probably wouldn't have been fatal). That is two strikes; there may be a third we don't know about.

 

[Keroppi]

You were pretty on the money, the light in 17" above water level. I want to get or borrow a par meter. I know corals can survive on higher settings, but I *really* want to measure the oar at the lowest setting.

look at the chart for your light, your tank appears to be 24" deep and your light looks to be about 12" to 16" above the tank ( if you could provide the measurements that would be great). At both channels at 1% the tank is lit but your corals are not getting use able light. The Forgspawn, zoas, and Acans would be happy in the 100 to 150 range and to achieve this you would probably set the white channel at 50% and the blue closer to 75%. And run the light around 8 or 9 hours.

 

[Keroppi]

I get what you're saying, and I understand the difference. I will just have to concede that the a low par and 40 hr photo period can vanquish all 15 different coral frags. I find that difficult, but I guess that's what being a noob is all about.

Just to be clear about your lighting. The two issues people are mentioning are photoperiod which is the length of time the lights are on and intensity, the amount of light (PAR). They are not the same thing. Both are very important in setting your lighting. Some folks may have success using a long photoperiod with a lower intensity. Others will use a short photoperiod with a high intensity. The point people here were making is your photoperiod was too long for any intensity and your intensity was too low for any photoperiod.

 

[Keroppi]

So I want to treat this like a science experiment, and learn from it. I want to remove the variables, as much as possible.

So I wanna get another (single) frag.

Water parameters? Possible low NO2, otherwise within range (assuming tests are correct). Dump some coral food in with the frag
Par level too low? Check. Will run it at 40%
Photo period too long? Check. Will leave off the light all night then give it 8 hrs.
Acclimated too long? Check. Will give it 20 minutes next time.

I am interested to see how the next frag will respond, correcting for the "perfect storm" of issues "corrected". Anyone else?

I've made every mistake you can make and have killed so many things over the past 23 years I'm almost ashamed to admit it. We all start somewhere and we all make mistakes despite our best intentions. Saltwater critters are extremely resilient, truly; what they can survive is nothing short of amazing. I'm a firm believer that it takes two or three things to be out of whack before stuff dies. Alkalinity fluctuations by themselves aren't fatal, 0 nutrients by themselves aren't fatal, salinity by itself isn't fatal (unless these parameters are well outside of acceptable ranges but that margin is actually quite large).

You have a young tank, it's possible to keep corals but it's certainly harder. Your lights were on full time even though at low levels (by itself, probably wouldn't have been fatal). That is two strikes; there may be a third we don't know about.

 

[Mykesocalreef]

Did you say what you used to check your salinity?

 

[Keroppi]

Did you say what you used to check your salinity?

I tasted how salty it was.

Lol...I didn't say. Standard (prism based?) refractometer.

 

[madweazl]

I've never added a coral food to the tank and look at them as largely snake oil but some swear by them. With that said, I do feed my fish generously; LRS Reef Frenzy twice a day, algae sheet once a day, and a littleneck clam once a day. Dont look at "coral foods" as a mandatory addition; if you decide to use them and get good results, stick with it. Watch for climbing nutrient levels if you do so.

Something I didn't inquire about was flow within the tank; what are using for water motion?

 

[Keroppi]

I really only meant to do it to remove the "low nutrients" argument from the equation. Nobody can accuse me of starving the coral if I literally add them with food.

Flow is provided by a maxspect gyre xf150 at the back of the peninsula. Currently in full blast alternating mode. It seems to provide decent flow, pretty broken up by the rock work directly in front of it. I tested it with fish food without putting it into feed mode.

I've never added a coral food to the tank and look at them as largely snake oil but some swear by them. With that said, I do feed my fish generously; LRS Reef Frenzy twice a day, algae sheet once a day, and a littleneck clam once a day. Dont look at "coral foods" as a mandatory addition; if you decide to use them and get good results, stick with it. Watch for climbing nutrient levels if you do so.

Something I didn't inquire about was flow within the tank; what are using for water motion?

 

[NY_Caveman]

I get what you're saying, and I understand the difference. I will just have to concede that the a low par and 40 hr photo period can vanquish all 15 different coral frags. I find that difficult, but I guess that's what being a noob is all about.

I find this hard to believe as well. Low light would not kill corals in two days.

 

[NY_Caveman]

I tasted how salty it was.

Lol...I didn't say. Standard (prism based?) refractometer.

I would recommend recalibrating it every time you take it out.

 

[Keroppi]

Ok... I am really starting to think there is an abnormal factor at play. The clown is looking "pale"...like the top half of him, his color is not as vibrant. Very muted.

The only other thing(s) that have been added to the tank are the things I used to glue the frags and reattach the rocks I knocked loose. Standard gel super glue, and this 2 part epoxy. The exact model of epoxy I bought based on a forum recommendation.

 

[madweazl]

Is it possible that an aerosol made it's way into the tank? Air freshener of some sort, bug spray, essential oil type stuff (usually less of a problem with the fish though)?

 

[JMetaxas]

Run an ICP test to determine if you have any contaminants outside the normal Ca, Alk, etc..... I've only used the Triton test, but there are others.

Huh?

 

[FoxyFace]

Did you dip the coral? I had a similar event happen when I left the corals in CoralRx for 15 minutes. If no dip, I would think a containment. Lotion or soap on hands, soap on the container you used? I know my dishwasher leaves residue now and then. Try again with a hardy birdsnest. Someone in your club should give you a frag. Sorry fellow reefer!