Am I crazy for thinking MH + t5 ?

[mcarroll]

It's actually 300w

https://premiumaquatics.com/articles/radium

Uh Uh....gotta hit the source:
https://www.radium.de/en/products/metal-halide-lamp-quartz-burner-hri-t-250w230be40
270 watts (see Electrical Parameters)

I just realized we thoroughly hijacked this thread lol

It's not your fault.
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I noticed this morning!! LOL!!
But I think everyone loves it! Haha!
Grandis.

 

[BoomCorals]

Going to grab two TA. I could downgrade the radiums to 250w but then I think I'd have to run the T5 full time for the Extra PAR. I have several Coral colonies I grow that get mad if they get anything less than 350 PAR. So my fear is that 250w radium will not be enough?

 

[BoomCorals]

I was talking about the luxcore ballast setting, as I think that's what they were discussing. 250w super lumens / hqi on the luxcore overdrives to 300w.

Uh Uh....gotta hit the source:
https://www.radium.de/en/products/metal-halide-lamp-quartz-burner-hri-t-250w230be40
270 watts (see Electrical Parameters)



It's not your fault.
.
.
.

 

[DSC reef]

Going to grab two TA. I could downgrade the radiums to 250w but then I think I'd have to run the T5 full time for the Extra PAR. I have several Coral colonies I grow that get mad if they get anything less than 350 PAR. So my fear is that 250w radium will not be enough?

I'd stay with the 400 watts so you don't have to run T5 as much.

 

[jda]

The only reason that True Actinic read lower PAR than a B+ is because the PAR meters do not read very well below 450nm and leave out a lot of the important spectrum. If you compensate for the spectrum, you can see that they are probably very close to the same. On a newer meter like an Apogee 510, which is still light on blue, purple and UV (but better), the gap has closed to almost nothing.

This is also why VHO always tested lower than T5 since the famed Super Actinic and Actinic White have so much output below 450. Even without compensation for the spectrum, on an Apogee 510, one single VHO bulb of either kind is within 1% of a pair B+ bulbs.

Use just about any T5 bulb with confidence that has spectrum from 350 to 720 - the PAR will be the same as another and is only limited in our minds by our cheap hobby-grade tools.

 

[Velcro]

Most of the people that matter as far as the science behind lights go will tell you that the blue+ has plenty of actinic in it.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Uh Uh....gotta hit the source:
https://www.radium.de/en/products/metal-halide-lamp-quartz-burner-hri-t-250w230be40
270 watts (see Electrical Parameters)

We know the bulb spec is 270w. They were referring the 300w setting of some E ballasts vs the 330w drive given to it by an M80.

Most of the people that matter as far as the science behind lights go will tell you that the blue+ has plenty of actinic in it.

Lol what is plenty? and who are 'the people that matter' Hilarious statement to make if you ask me. If you mean plenty for growing coral then you don't need 'actinic' at all really if we look at some early, yet effective LED systems. True actinic is a fantastic bulb for those that understand it's application.

 

[Potatohead]

Haha I'm actually embarrassed for you putting up a bad review of the True Actinic bulb without giving them a fair shot. They are honestly the most potent T5 bulb for producing coloration in corals after basic PAR needs are met with Blue plus, Corals plus, or AB special bulbs. I recommend at least 1 and ideally 2 True Actinics in every 6 bulb T5 fixture unless you're going for absolute maximum growth. I run some 8 bulbs with 3 TA, 4 BP, and 1 PP. There's still plenty of PAR on those fixtures and I find the look much less washed out than in tanks running only Blue plus and coral plus T5s. I agree the Purple plus is a hard bulb to love. Some tanks people like the look of 1 in a 6 bulb, but I usually recommend no more than 1 in an 8 bulb even since it adds such a reddish hue. Purple Plus bulbs do make fish look really good though if you want to highlight some of the non fluorescent pigments that dominate most of what we see in our fish. We tend miss out on a lot of our fish's vibrance with LED and blued out T5 setups.

This is interesting. I have been running my eight bulb with 4B, 2C, 1P and 1A for a year. I swapped a couple bulbs last night and ultimately changed one C for another A. The look is hardly any more blue (kind of surprising) and it is very slightly dimmer (makes sense). I wouldn't mind a bit more blue to be honest but I know a few months ago I tried another B in place of a C (making 5/1/1/1) and it wasn't my favorite. I think if I want more blue I should swap the P for a C in the current setup but I really like the warmth of the purple bulb.

The only reason that True Actinic read lower PAR than a B+ is because the PAR meters do not read very well below 450nm and leave out a lot of the important spectrum. If you compensate for the spectrum, you can see that they are probably very close to the same. On a newer meter like an Apogee 510, which is still light on blue, purple and UV (but better), the gap has closed to almost nothing.

There was a thread on T5 bulb comparisons on here a couple years ago where someone actually professionally measured the PAR of all the T5 bulbs at 0 hours and again at 100. Most were pretty consistent but the TA actually gained 100 par over the course of 100 hour burn in, which only put it about 15% lower than a B+. If people are testing them when the bulbs are new they are going to show a big drop in PAR which seems to come back later.

 

[jeremy]

Ok so the old hamilton is being boxed up and sent back. Today I installed the new giesemann fixture. Remember that I am using 400W radiums with 400w luxcore ballasts, running them on the 400w super lumens selector. My T5 bulbs don't arrive until tomorrow, so for now the fixture is only running the halides.

And all I can say is WOW what a difference. These lights are bright and fantastic. I am getting 200-250 par in the far corners and 300-400 almost everywhere else. And this is with the fixture a full 18.5" above the water! This is exactly what I was looking for. And for comparison, remember that on the hamilton I was getting 300 PAR at 7" below the fixture, no matter where I put the seneye. Well, 7" below this fixture I get 1400 PAR which is what I'd expect for a properly working halide. While I realize this is 400w vs 250w, I'd expect a 250w to still put out 1000 PAR at that level. So for clarity, it's very evident something was wrong with the Hamilton fixture and it was not working correctly.

This giesemann is a fantastic fixture, and my wife said she likes the look a lot better too. (happy wife happy life ) I noticed the giesemann has no active cooling so I'm wondering if I should add a fan or two? Although it has a lot of holes for venting above/below.

I ran that same fixture over a 120 I had. I never ran any fans. Changed bulbs every 12 months. Everything worked great

A pic of my old 120 with gieseman spectra. 2 250 watt 14k Hamilton's on a galaxy select a watt and 2 blue plus 2 purple plus with 2 blue reef Brite strips.

 

[jda]

Here is the bottom line... PAR should be used as a rough guide and NOTHING MORE. That might even be overstating it's usefulness a bit, but sensors and meters are getting better which will make it harder for manufacturers to design to the sensor and some will have to do a better job of designing a useful light for corals. Did people think that all of the awesome tanks with True Actinics on them actually got less energy to the corals? This might be where actual experience was set aside for message-board reefing. Did anybody with any quantum mechanics education think that two light sources without any wasted energy (think IR) with the same input would have different levels of useable output? ...ok, I am kidding about the Quantum Mechanics thing - for those who do not know, a Photon is a Quantum... or am I kidding? Seriously though, other than MH which have about 2-4% in wasted output from IR over 720nm, a watt of input will equal the same number of radiated watts of output in the quantum. There are two factors that matter - one is IR waste which I just touched on which appears totally useless over 72onm, but the other is excessive light in certain peaks which nobody has really started to investigate yet in some panels and bulbs that might have color peaks beyond what anything can use and will likely have waste as well... time will likely tell on this second one.

 

[Centerline]

Haha I'm actually embarrassed for you putting up a bad review of the True Actinic bulb without giving them a fair shot. They are honestly the most potent T5 bulb for producing coloration in corals after basic PAR needs are met with Blue plus, Corals plus, or AB special bulbs. I recommend at least 1 and ideally 2 True Actinics in every 6 bulb T5 fixture unless you're going for absolute maximum growth. I run some 8 bulbs with 3 TA, 4 BP, and 1 PP. There's still plenty of PAR on those fixtures and I find the look much less washed out than in tanks running only Blue plus and coral plus T5s. I agree the Purple plus is a hard bulb to love. Some tanks people like the look of 1 in a 6 bulb, but I usually recommend no more than 1 in an 8 bulb even since it adds such a reddish hue. Purple Plus bulbs do make fish look really good though if you want to highlight some of the non fluorescent pigments that dominate most of what we see in our fish. We tend miss out on a lot of our fish's vibrance with LED and blued out T5 setups.

Ya Man + 1 on the TA bulbs. I ran 4 TAs along side 250 Radiums over a deep blue 80. Looked absolutely fantastic. I think that people will often just toss a single TA in the middle of a bunch of of BP and complain because visually the TA are overwhelmed. The TA produce a beautiful look that approaches the URI actinic t12 bulbs (to my eye the best looking bulbs produced to date).

 

[Centerline]

Going to grab two TA. I could downgrade the radiums to 250w but then I think I'd have to run the T5 full time for the Extra PAR. I have several Coral colonies I grow that get mad if they get anything less than 350 PAR. So my fear is that 250w radium will not be enough?

250s are pretty potent and will take care of business as well as allow for a longer photo period. If you run 400s consider 4 TAs, they look awesome when not overwhelmed by other lights. Last hour of the day with TA only really makes for good viewing experience.

 

[BoomCorals]

I picked up 2 TA and 2 CP today. I have 2 ABS and 2 BP coming yet as well. Will play around to see which I like.

 

[jda]

Did you all know that UVL makes Super Actinic in T5 as well as VHO? ...not many people do.

 

[BoomCorals]

Ok do I just have the worst luck or something? On my giesemann only one side of the T5s work. UGH. I do not want to have to ship back yet another faulty fixture.

 

[DSC reef]

Ok do I just have the worst luck or something? On my giesemann only one side of the T5s work. UGH. I do not want to have to ship back yet another faulty fixture.

That sucks man. It's a nice fixture but German doesn't always mean perfect. I remember servillius on 3 reef had the same fixture delivered bad as well. All company's can have a defective product.

 

[BoomCorals]

I called BRS, and obviously I'm rusty on T5s, forgot that if one of the two bulbs is bad, then it wont complete the circuit on that side and thus neither bulb will light. Swapping bulbs now to test! Hopefully, just a bad bulb.

 

[Potatohead]

I called BRS, and obviously I'm rusty on T5s, forgot that if one of the two bulbs is bad, then it wont complete the circuit on that side and thus neither bulb will light. Swapping bulbs now to test! Hopefully, just a bad bulb.

It's easy to install them a bit off too, they need to click on the 90° turn, so double check that

 

[BoomCorals]

Yep just a bad bulb. Still... rotten luck! lol. And of course it was one of the actinic and the LFS is all out of them as I bought the last two. *sigh* Side note, based on the look of the coral plus and actinic I'm guessing I am going to end up running either 4x actinic or 2x actinic and 2x blue plus.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Yep just a bad bulb. Still... rotten luck! lol. And of course it was one of the actinic and the LFS is all out of them as I bought the last two. *sigh* Side note, based on the look of the coral plus and actinic I'm guessing I am going to end up running either 4x actinic or 2x actinic and 2x blue plus.

Bummer on the bad bulb, I know Actinics have scared me in the past because on first burn they don't even light for 30 seconds or so sometimes. They really take a minute to get the phosphor fully fluorescing. I think you'll like the look with 2 actinics at least. Will complement the Radium's spectrum much better than most 'blue' and 'white' type T5 bulbs.