Amino acids additives….

[CHSUB]

Today I was on FB and #RyanSeriousReefs had one of his videos and while I’m not a member of his channel, I thought I would comment here. He was speaking about AA and how he initially thought it was a bit of “snake oil” but after doing some testing now believes. I had the same feeling before I started using AA over two years ago. I’m amazed how it appears to work. I have not significantly changed my reefing approach since the early 2000’s and had “good” success. However, since I started lightly directly feeding all corals AA mixed with Reef Roids, I have experienced greater growth and color than I ever experienced or expected.
Every coral seems to respond!

Here is one example of a Bernardpora, short polyp Goni (bottom red coral), which I purchased about 2 years ago. It has had amazing growth and doesn’t seem to be “short polyp” anymore.
While I can’t be sure about AA, Ryan confirms both my theory and observations.

​

 

[EnterName]

You are running your tanks at "non-detectable" (hobby test-kits) nutrient levels and try to keep them as clean as possible. By dosing AAs you are giving your corals a nitrogen and carbon source they can take up very fast, so I can imagine that the effect in your tanks is much more pronounced than it will be in most other tanks which already have a decent amount of organics and nitrogen sources like urea, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc.

You are basically replacing a measurable nitrogen source (because you like to keep your readings low) with a non-measurable nitrogen source so the tank "looks clean" to your tests, but in the end it's still C, N, and P

Unfortunately it's is extremely hard to prove or disprove the effect of AAs in reef tanks for various reasons. So it will probably remain a mystery for quite some time... I could imagine it doesn't really matter to corals if you provide more ammonia + urea or amino acids. They all can be taken up quite efficiently.

 

[CHSUB]

You are running your tanks at "non-detectable" (hobby test-kits) nutrient levels and try to keep them as clean as possible. By dosing AAs you are giving your corals a nitrogen and carbon source they can take up very fast, so I can imagine that the effect in your tanks is much more pronounced than it will be in most other tanks which already have a decent amount of organics and nitrogen sources like urea, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, etc.

You are basically replacing a measurable nitrogen source (because you like to keep your readings low) with a non-measurable nitrogen source so the tank "looks clean" to your tests, but in the end it's still C, N, and P

Unfortunately it's is extremely hard to prove or disprove the effect of AAs in reef tanks for various reasons. So it will probably remain a mystery for quite some time... I could imagine it doesn't really matter to corals if you provide more ammonia + urea or amino acids. They all can be taken up quite efficiently.

Maybe, but I would disagree. Inorganic n and p feed the zooxanthella only and fast growing, over fed zooxanthella don’t transfer nutrients to corals, per Borneman. AA feed the coral animal.

Also my mangrove only use inorganic nutrients so undetectable hobby tested seems to be enough…

 

[Acro Junky]

Help convince me to dose Acropower

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

My experience, for whatever that’s worth, is that roids alone has a much higher impact over aminos alone. When I tried both together, I didn’t notice any difference over roids alone.

Then you go down the rabbit hole of which specific amino potion actually has the drastic effect many claim. That’s always a very opinionated debate.

With roids, watch your phosphate….you may end up converting to the dirty tank club!

 

[EnterName]

Maybe, but I would disagree.

I'm sure you do That's fine.

Inorganic n and p feed the zooxanthella only and fast growing, over fed zooxanthella don’t transfer nutrients to corals, per Borneman. AA feed the coral animal.

Corals can digest their own zooxanthellae. In nature they don't do it too much under normal conditions as far as I remember, but I don't know about their behavior in tanks.

Also my mangrove only use inorganic nutrients so undetectable hobby tested seems to be enough…

I mean the Hanna Checker goes down to 0.25ppm NO3 (accuracy limit) which is still very high compared to nature, so obviously undetectable can still be enough, but you also have to consider that there are indirect pathways of AAs reaching mangroves. Whatever takes up the carbon and nitrogen might also be able to release them again (or die and decay) which can release inorganic nitrogen.

Edit: I'm still researching, but it could actually be possible for mangroves to take up AAs and other organic nitrogen sources.

 

[CHSUB]

Corals can digest their own zooxanthellae. In nature they don't do it too much under normal conditions as far as I remember, but I don't know about their behavior in tanks

Yes I read that study and it is very interesting.

I mean the Hanna Checker goes down to 0.25ppm NO3 (accuracy limit) which is still very high compared to nature, so obviously undetectable can still be enough

My Hanna is LR so much better, but yes “undetectable” is plenty with hobby testing.

I'm still searching, but it could actually be possible for mangroves to take up AAs and other organic nitrogen sources

I think, iirc, bacteria on the roots converts organics to plant usable nutrients.

About the AA, I’m convinced they work, however it’s only “hobby observation” and could easily be doing nothing….

As stated in my original post, “While I can’t be sure about AA, Ryan confirms both my theory and observations”

 

[EnterName]

My Hanna is LR so much better, but yes “undetectable” is plenty with hobby testing.

We are talking about the same HannaChecker LR Nitrate (HI781). It shows you values down to 0.01ppm but the accuracy is only ±0.25ppm (±2% of the reading). So your nitrate in that photo is between 0.32ppm and 0.00ppm. It's not 0.07ppm.

I’m convinced they work, however it’s only “hobby observation” and could easily be doing nothing….

Doesn't sound convinced to me

 

[BeanAnimal]

Maybe, but I would disagree. Inorganic n and p feed the zooxanthella only and fast growing, over fed zooxanthella don’t transfer nutrients to corals, per Borneman. AA feed the coral animal.

But how do you differentiate between the effects of the Reef-Roids and the AAs in your case?

Ignoring that, let's take a step back and look at what I think is a relevant analogy.

As humans we need protein, which breaks down into amino acids that our bodies use to build and repair tissue. The fitness supplement industry markets isolated amino acids, such as BCAAs, as a shortcut to recovery and growth. The rub is that if your daily protein intake is sufficient, the evidence doesn't show that isolated BCAAs add anything for muscle growth. Yes, I wasted a lot of money on BCAAs before doing research.

I think the reef supplement industry operates much the same way with amino acids. Sure, the basic biology says corals can absorb and use them, but as far as I know there is no solid scientific evidence showing that dosing isolated AAs provides an added benefit in a tank that is already adequately fed.

It somewhat follows that if the tank is not adequately fed, then AAs alone aren't a substitute for adequate nutrition.

 

[CHSUB]

We are talking about the same HannaChecker LR Nitrate (HI781). It shows you values down to 0.01ppm but the accuracy is only ±0.25ppm (±2% of the reading). So your nitrate in that photo is between 0.32ppm and 0.00ppm. It's not 0.07ppm.

Very good! I thought you were referring to the HR. Still could be .07 however…

 

[EnterName]

Very good! I thought you were referring to the HR. Still could be .07 however…

Okay, fair point there is a non-zero chance it's 0.07ppm, I will give you that.

 

[CHSUB]

But how do you differentiate between the effects of the Reef-Roids and the AAs in your case?

Ignoring that, let's take a step back and look at what I think is a relevant analogy.

As humans we need protein, which breaks down into amino acids that our bodies use to build and repair tissue. The fitness supplement industry markets isolated amino acids, such as BCAAs, as a shortcut to recovery and growth. The rub is that if your daily protein intake is sufficient, the evidence doesn't show that isolated BCAAs add anything for muscle growth. Yes, I wasted a lot of money on BCAAs before doing research.

I think the reef supplement industry operates much the same way with amino acids. Sure, the basic biology says corals can absorb and use them, but as far as I know there is no solid scientific evidence showing that dosing isolated AAs provides an added benefit in a tank that is already adequately fed.

It somewhat follows that if the tank is not adequately fed, then AAs alone aren't a substitute for adequate nutrition.

I don’t disagree. A well fed, large fish population would provide the same benefits of both coral additives.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Today I was on FB and #RyanSeriousReefs had one of his videos and while I’m not a member of his channel, I thought I would comment here. He was speaking about AA and how he initially thought it was a bit of “snake oil” but after doing some testing now believes. I had the same feeling before I started using AA over two years ago. I’m amazed how it appears to work. I have not significantly changed my reefing approach since the early 2000’s and had “good” success. However, since I started lightly directly feeding all corals AA mixed with Reef Roids, I have experienced greater growth and color than I ever experienced or expected.
Every coral seems to respond!

Here is one example of a Bernardpora, short polyp Goni (bottom red coral), which I purchased about 2 years ago. It has had amazing growth and doesn’t seem to be “short polyp” anymore.
While I can’t be sure about AA, Ryan confirms both my theory and observations.

​

Probably because you keep N too low. lol